D&D 5E Enemies should only attack when they have advantage (and other quick tips)

[GMforPowergamers]

@GMforPowergamers I think you may be taking my ideas way too literally, and ignoring the fact that this is a strategy I have already used to make my combats more fun and engaging.

no, and like I said ffrom the begining, useing an action to generate advantage will as often if not more often put the creature ddoing it at a disadvantage. this disconnect would cause an issue for me both in the DM role and the PC role.

Also in my original post I explicitly say that this is a guideline I use, not a hard rule that must be followed.

right and i even showed up thread how with three off the cuff examples how it could be fun or not... that in and of itself i see little value added to the game by this soft rule.

The point of the example I gave isn't that an orc shoving a paladin is strategic or deadly... It's that it sets up a great moment for a rogue to shoot the orc over the paladin's prone body, or the paladin to leap up with a mighty blow from their sword, or whatever.

and I see none of those as great moments... especially since on the paladens turn he can stand from prone and attack the orc... making the orc basicly just skip his turn for no effect.

Shoving the paladin down creates a ticking clock that the characters can respond to, rather than just another swing of an axe.

but it doesn't... the orc will never act again before the PC can stand... that is why it is a BAD EXAMPLE... it added nothing.

Obviously one orc is going to be easily defeated anyways, so what does it matter if they land one single blow or not?

lets try putting this in a more real situation...

the paliden is 55ft infront of the rogue and cleric. the Paliden is engaging with a great axe orc, the rogue and cleric each have 2 goblins on them... the Orc pushes the paliden and he falls prone... as you said "Raising his hand to bring his axe down oon the next action"

a) one of the other PCs takes a shot to kill the orc
b) no one takes a shot at the orc

no matter a or b the player will be able to use half his movement to stand from prone...

if anything if the rogue threw a knife and sneak attack killed the orc that is WORSE then hitting the goblins... becuse the paliden uses half movement to stand and can not close with the goblins but could have attacked the orcc.

Anyways, that is literally the last I'm going to type about that one random example, when the whole point of my post was that giving enemies something else to do in combat creates fun, dynamic fights at my table. If your table is different, that's okay!

give them something to do sounds great... it is what that something is that is making me say this is a bad idea....

 

[BookTenTiger]

The fantastic game Ironsworn has a list of random Combat Actions that could provide some ideas for things enemies can do other than attack:

1. Compel a surrender.
2. Coordinate with allies.
3. Gather reinforcements.
4. Seize something or someone.
5. Provoke a reckless response.
6. Intimidate or frighten.
7. Reveal a surprising truth.
8. Shift focus to someone or something else.
9. Destroy something, or render it useless.
10. Take a decisive action.
11. Reinforce defenses.
12. Ready an action.
13. Use the terrain to gain advantage.
14. Leverage the advantage of a weapon or ability.
15. Create an opportunity.
16. Attack with precision.
17. Attack with power.
18. Take a completely unexpected action.

There are some really fun ideas there as inspiration. Of course, the big difference between Ironsworn and D&D is that the truth can change and be added to in Ironsworn, and in D&D it's usually preset.

But still, food for thought!

 

[BookTenTiger]

@GMforPowergamers : just to be clear, I am no longer discussing that one example.

 

[Charlaquin]

They were meant to be, but that's not how I read them at all.

For longer discussion: Tucker's Kobolds -- really that tough a challenge?

The author of the article seemed to have fun with it. Obviously it’s important to be on the same page as your players about what kind of game your playing. Tucker’s game seemed to have been well-known as highly challenge-oriented, which isn’t for everyone.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

If enemies are smart, I usually reserve one or two to use the help action to give their allies advantage.

 

[Celebrim]

The author of the article seemed to have fun with it. Obviously it’s important to be on the same page as your players about what kind of game your playing. Tucker’s game seemed to have been well-known as highly challenge-oriented, which isn’t for everyone.

If you read my discussion of the article, one of my criticisms I make is that it isn't actually challenge-oriented.

 

[Umbran]

no, and like I said ffrom the begining, useing an action to generate advantage will as often if not more often put the creature ddoing it at a disadvantage. this disconnect would cause an issue for me both in the DM role and the PC role.

Then don't use his idea in your games, and don't play with BookTenTiger.

"It is mechanically suboptimal and don't like it," is a reasonable thing to say, but not a great thing to persist in discussion with.

 

[Charlaquin]

If you read my discussion of the article, one of my criticisms I make is that it isn't actually challenge-oriented.

Eh, I read your posts in that thread and disagree, but it’s irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Wow, hot thread!

So, haven't read all the pages yet (I will later tonight hopefully) so if someone has suggested these, my apologies:

When there are sufficient numbers:
1. disarm the PCs, take their spell foci, etc.
2. grapple, shove, etc. the PCs, use grapple to move PCs away from each other and in harm's way
3. wolf-pack one PC at a time
4. have the enemy retreat and re-engage

If I think of more, I'll add them later.

 

[BookTenTiger]

Wow, hot thread!

So, haven't read all the pages yet (I will later tonight hopefully) so if someone has suggested these, my apologies:

When there are sufficient numbers:
1. disarm the PCs, take their spell foci, etc.
2. grapple, shove, etc. the PCs, use grapple to move PCs away from each other and in harm's way
3. wolf-pack one PC at a time
4. have the enemy retreat and re-engage

If I think of more, I'll add them later.

I also think "Engage with the environment" could be on that list. Topple trees to make a barrier, shove people into acid pits, set things on fire...