Enemy in the square of a unconscious pc

[Branduil]

Rules wise could you do that as an attack from prone, or would you have to grapple first (since you're in the same square!), again from prone and then attack with light weapon....

You're right. However, as DM I would rule that your opponent is considered flat-footed, since he can't really dodge you very well if he's standing above you.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Complete Adventurer pg 103 states that use of this skill still generates an AoO as normal - it only makes standing up a free action instead of a move action. The 5 ft step part is stil correct though.

I forgot it was is Complete Adventurer. I was actually referring to the SRD Epic rules on Tumble, which does not explicitly state AoO, therefore incurring an AoO is debatable (and I'm not going to debate it either, so I concede it to the CA rule). It's another one of those little rules conflicts between sources, like Energy Substitution.

Branduil, you'd also need to incorporate rules on called shots for that. In any case, that's a good point about light weapons. I guess instead of requiring grappling, maybe treat as 'grappling' for restrictions. I.e. light weapons only, etc.

 

[Phlebas]

You're right. However, as DM I would rule that your opponent is considered flat-footed, since he can't really dodge you very well if he's standing above you.

That would give a rogue sneak attack damage - so a brave Rogue PC feigning unconsciousness.......

 

[Darklone]

You're right. However, as DM I would rule that your opponent is considered flat-footed, since he can't really dodge you very well if he's standing above you.

You can't dodge him very well either and still a prone char doesn't lose his Dex bonus to AC. These kinds of houserules don't mesh very well with the real rules.

 

[Bagpuss]

What happens if you are in a allies square rather than an enemies when you get up... do you provoke an AoO if the ally is threatened or are you in cover so not threatened?

 

[irdeggman]

What happens if you are in a allies square rather than an enemies when you get up... do you provoke an AoO if the ally is threatened or are you in cover so not threatened?

I would say no.

Creatures only provide soft cover which only benefits against ranged attacks. If it does not benefit against a melee attack, logically it doesn't benefit against AoO.

But if you choose to rule that soft cover and cover are equivalent then it would work there too. Even though the text for soft cover says:

Soft Cover: Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Hide check.

 

[Bagpuss]

Ah I remember now, creatures normally provide soft cover thus prevent AoO from reach attacks*.

In this case as you are getting up in the adjacent square and then being forced out to the one behind the ally, the attack actually happens in the adjacent square so isn't a reach attack.

Hence my confusion.



*from the same bit of the SRD - "When making a melee attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks."

 

[Hypersmurf]

Ah I remember now, creatures normally provide soft cover thus prevent AoO from reach attacks*.

In this case as you are getting up in the adjacent square and then being forced out to the one behind the ally, the attack actually happens in the adjacent square so isn't a reach attack.

Hence my confusion.

*from the same bit of the SRD - "When making a melee attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks."

While soft cover works just fine against non-adjacent melee attacks, an ally in your square doesn't provide soft cover in the first place:
When you move through a square occupied by a friendly character, that character doesn’t provide you with cover.

You need to get the ally into a square between you and the attack to benefit.

-Hyp.

 

[Branduil]

You can't dodge him very well either and still a prone char doesn't lose his Dex bonus to AC. These kinds of houserules don't mesh very well with the real rules.

In that case, quick house-rule: If two opponents are in the same square, and one is prone, they are both flat-footed to each other.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Erg.. Rules forum

I think its been covered well enough that the RAW does not address this scenario at all.

However, I think parts of the RAW can still be applied in a way that makes sense.

Use the Squeezing penalty of -4 to attacks and treat the characters as if partially in a grapple together, specifically:

Characters do not threaten outside of thier own face
Denied Dex to attacks from outside of thier own face
Limited to only light, unarmed, or natural attacks

All other normal rules for things like being Prone, etc.. apply.

If the Prone character stands up {drawing an AoO}, the rules quoted above about ending movement applies and the character is moved to the nearest legal position {drawing an AoO}

Does this mean its not good to be Prone under an Orc? Of course {he gets -4 to hit for Squeezing and +4 to hit for you being Prone }

Same rules could be used for bull-rushing two combatants together.
Actualy, I think I like this rule better than the 'mystically cannot enter' rule