Enervation

[Kmart Kommando]

Heh, so much for getting rid of Enervation volleys followed by Blasphemy. :\

So, you're saying that popping a wizard with negative levels is going to make his familiar dumber as well? That's just mean to Mr Fuzzy.

The only restriction placed on casting spells in the whole SRD is casting stat must be 10 + spell level.

Would the Barbarian lose his DR, or his improved versions of Rage? or his Uncanny Dodge? Does the Rogue lose his Trapsense? (which amounts to doubly penalizing the character for gaining negative levels.) His fistfuls of Sneak Attack dice? Is Enervation a magical stupid ray that makes the Rogue forget that the pointy end goes into the other man?
If a Warforged Juggernaught loses a few levels, does he magically regain the ability to be healed by Conjuration (Healing) spells? Would a paladin forget how to summon his Poke'Mount?

If you stick it to one class, you have to stick it to all of them, and that's something the writers didn't want to deal with, which is why it's just -1 to all calculations, without taking any abilities away.

The 2d6 fireball can still go off. Having to toss a 2d6 fireball is punishment enough.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you stick it to one class, you have to stick it to all of them, and that's something the writers didn't want to deal with, which is why it's just -1 to all calculations, without taking any abilities away.

I agree that "Does a Rogue have Uncanny Dodge?" isn't a calculation based on his level.

But what's the caster level of an 8th level Ranger? How do you determine this?

What's the caster level of an 8th level Ranger with 2 negative levels? How do you determine this?

-Hyp.

 

[lukelightning]

For those of you who insist that the "penalty to calculations" clause applies to everything, including caster level, then it should apply to XP awards as well, right? That's a calculation. So it may be advantageous to hit yourself with some negative levels before fighting some weaker enemies...you get more XP for them!

 

[Darmanicus]

For those of you who insist that the "penalty to calculations" clause applies to everything, including caster level, then it should apply to XP awards as well, right? That's a calculation. So it may be advantageous to hit yourself with some negative levels before fighting some weaker enemies...you get more XP for them!

Genius

It'll certainly help pay for my crafting costs

 

[Darmanicus]

Another thing I'd like to bring up is the wording of the spell loss, NOT the caster level etc loss arguement, is that the spells wording is such that you only lose 1 slot or highest level spell regardless of the amount of negative levels gained?

Agree/disagree?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Another thing I'd like to bring up is the wording of the spell loss, NOT the caster level etc loss arguement, is that the spells wording is such that you only lose 1 slot or highest level spell regardless of the amount of negative levels gained?

Agree/disagree?

You lose one spell or slot of the highest level in addition to the -1 whenever your level is used in a calculation.

Edit - Oh, I see what you mean. You lose one spell or slot for gaining a negative level, and negative levels stack... so four negative levels is four spells or slots. The "In addition..." sentence is still covered by the "Each negative level..." of the previous sentence.

-Hyp.

 

[Darmanicus]

You lose one spell or slot of the highest level in addition to the -1 whenever your level is used in a calculation.

Edit - Oh, I see what you mean. You lose one spell or slot for gaining a negative level, and negative levels stack... so four negative levels is four spells or slots. The "In addition..." sentence is still covered by the "Each negative level..." of the previous sentence.

-Hyp.

Ah cheers Hyp

 

[Kmart Kommando]

I agree that "Does a Rogue have Uncanny Dodge?" isn't a calculation based on his level.

But what's the caster level of an 8th level Ranger? How do you determine this?

What's the caster level of an 8th level Ranger with 2 negative levels? How do you determine this?

-Hyp.

If the Rogue is 8th level, and flanked by warriors, and he takes a negative level, does he become flanked?
The silliness leans me toward no abilities are lost, but take the negative penalties on the other calculations from there.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If the Rogue is 8th level, and flanked by warriors, and he takes a negative level, does he become flanked?

I'd say no... but if he were flanked by two 11th level Rogues, he would, since he is now flanked by two rogues who are effectively 4 levels higher.

Again, I'm not saying a 5th level wizard loses the ability to cast 3rd level spells; I'm saying his caster level is calculated at 4th, which is too low for a wizard to cast 3rd level spells. The same result, but for an entirely different reason. He still uses the spells known and spells per day entries of a 5th level wizard, just like the 8th level rogue retains Improved Uncanny Dodge. But his effective caster level is 4th, just as the rogue's effective rogue level for calculating flanked-by-higher-level-rogues is 7th.

-Hyp.

 

[moritheil]

Taking a single parenthetical comment from an example in a passage about spellcasting in the PHB and trying to apply it to the Negative Levels rules in the DMG doesn't really strike me as "RAW" in any case.

Which, as I said, strikes me as injecting an act of interpretation and first deciding which rules may be applied, rather than attempting to be inclusive of all the rules.

Sorry if that wasn't clear. I think we have differences in our approaches to rules.