Level Up (A5E) Engineering and Culture - skill discussion

[Praeden]

Hi everyone,

I've noticed that very few classes get the new skills (Engineering and Culture) on their list of proficiencies. Only three classes include either skill.

Bards: All skills, including Culture and Engineering
Cleric: Culture
Rogue: Culture and Engineering

Was this intentional?

Marshals have an option to acquire an expertise die in Engineering, but can only get actual proficiency from some other source (like the Sage background or multiclassing into Rogue or Bard). Wizards don't have any access to Engineering through their class. Heralds and Adepts seem to be among the potential candidates to have Culture on their class lists, but again nothing.

A related example: the Warlock invocation Courts of the Outer Realms does not have Culture included in the list of offered skill proficiencies, despite it being arguably the most appropriate skill to include.

It is as if the two skills appeared fairly late in the design cycle, after a lot of the work on classes had been done, and there wasn't time to go back. That probably isn't what happened, but that is how it looks.

Any thoughts?

 

[Gandalf970]

Cultures also have skills, Mountain Dwarf, Steamforged, Tinker Gnome have Engineering. Backgrounds also have Engineering, Guildmember (can be selected). Of course this is your game so you can make any changes you like to make the game better.

 

[Morrus]

You'll find them in the cultures too, and I think some backgrounds. People don't tend to be born with cultural knowledge.

 

[tetrasodium]

Hi everyone,

I've noticed that very few classes get the new skills (Engineering and Culture) on their list of proficiencies. Only three classes include either skill.

Bards: All skills, including Culture and Engineering
Cleric: Culture
Rogue: Culture and Engineering

Was this intentional?

Marshals have an option to acquire an expertise die in Engineering, but can only get actual proficiency from some other source (like the Sage background or multiclassing into Rogue or Bard). Wizards don't have any access to Engineering through their class. Heralds and Adepts seem to be among the potential candidates to have Culture on their class lists, but again nothing.

A related example: the Warlock invocation Courts of the Outer Realms does not have Culture included in the list of offered skill proficiencies, despite it being arguably the most appropriate skill to include.

It is as if the two skills appeared fairly late in the design cycle, after a lot of the work on classes had been done, and there wasn't time to go back. That probably isn't what happened, but that is how it looks.

Any thoughts?

It's a smart person skill

 

[Praeden]

It's a smart person skill

Ah, now that's interesting. You and I have interpreted the text differently here - although I am really hoping that you are right. Bold emphahsis is mine.

During character creation, for each point of your Intelligence modifier above 0 you can choose a skill specialty in one of the following skills (covered in detail page 408): Arcana, Culture, Engineering, History, Nature, Religion. If you are not proficient in any of these skills you can gain proficiency with one, choose an extra language known, or pick a tool proficiency in one artisan’s tool, gaming kit, instrument, or vehicle.

When I read the seond sentence, I took it to mean that the alternatives to a bonus speciality were only available to characters who had none of the listed skills. In other words, a rogue with 14 intelligence who didn't pick up any knowledge skills from heritage, culture or background or class could now gain proficiency in say, Engineering, but having chosen that skill would now have to use their second high intelligence slot for a speciality in engineering.

You seem to be saying that our smart thief could take Engineering, and since they are due another pick, they could now select an Engineering speciality, or gain proficiency in Arcana, or take up the lute, or learn Orcish.

Or, to take another example, you are saying that a wizard with 18 intelligence who only has Arcana and History from their origins/backstory could become proficient in Culture, Engineering, Nature and Religion by virtue of the their high intelligence.

I prefer your interpretation - it allows academic types to acquire more knowledge skill proficiencies. But looking at the RAW, it seems to me that the rules have been carefully worded to prioritise specialities over the other options. If they did intend your interpretation as the correct one, the entire structure of that paragraph seems wrong.

 

[Morrus]

I didn't write that bit, but yes, my reading is that if you can pick a specialty, you must do so. If you can't, you can instead get proficiency in one of those skills.

 

[Faolyn]

I prefer your interpretation - it allows academic types to acquire more knowledge skill proficiencies. But looking at the RAW, it seems to me that the rules have been carefully worded to prioritise specialities over the other options. If they did intend your interpretation as the correct one, the entire structure of that paragraph seems wrong.

I could actually see doing both. You're proficient in Athletics and are specialized in Jumping. You're not proficient in Arcana, but constructs have always fascinated you and you have read everything you can get your hands on about them, so are specialized in Constructs. You just don't know about any other type of Arcana stuff.

 

[Praeden]

I could actually see doing both. You're proficient in Athletics and are specialized in Jumping. You're not proficient in Arcana, but constructs have always fascinated you and you have read everything you can get your hands on about them, so are specialized in Constructs. You just don't know about any other type of Arcana stuff.

That's a fair point. It's the sort of thing that sometimes happens in real life. It just isn't supported by the RAW.

 

[Faolyn]

That's a fair point. It's the sort of thing that sometimes happens in real life. It just isn't supported by the RAW.

True. But as a house rule, it's fine.

 

[Legendweaver]

I'm not convinced this is the intended reading. If you take the interpretation that the "if" clause requires you cannot be proficient in "Arcana, Culture, Engineering, History, Nature, Religion" in order to gain a proficiency, I think you also have to read it as saying that proficiency in any of these skills also means you cannot "choose an extra language known, or pick a tool proficiency in one artisan’s tool, gaming kit, instrument, or vehicle."

That seems like an unlikely intent - but it'd be nice to get clarification from the original designer.