Enlarge Person question

[Pinotage]

You get only the +2 STR, not the standard size adjustments. You become bigger, but not that big.

The +2 Str really only adds to damage since as a large creature you get -1 to attack that offsets the +1 to attack from the strength increase. Still, reach, extra hp, increased weapon damage etc. make it a really nice spell.

Is it properly priced, though, in potion form? It's 250 gp, which I think is a remnant of Enlarge Person as a 5th caster level back in 3e. Shouldn't the 'correct' price be 50 gp like most first level spells? I suppose you could argue for an increase since it's a 1 round casting time spell.

Pinotage

 

[Pinotage]

Bump! Really wanted an answer on the pricing of Enlarge Person scrolls, wands and the potion, which seems to be a holdover from 3e.

Pinotage

 

[Hypersmurf]

Bump! Really wanted an answer on the pricing of Enlarge Person scrolls, wands and the potion, which seems to be a holdover from 3e.

Yeah, I'd agree.

-Hyp.

 

[Pinotage]

Yeah, I'd agree.

-Hyp.

The question then is whether Enlarge Person should really be a 2nd level spell, since for 50 gp it seems a bit overpowered.

Pinotage

 

[KarinsDad]

The question then is whether Enlarge Person should really be a 2nd level spell, since for 50 gp it seems a bit overpowered.

More powerful than a potion of Cure Light Wounds that takes you from unconscious to fully functional???

 

[Banesfinger]

One huge problem that our group is currently looking at is all the size enhancing spells from WotC.
- Animal Growth
- Enlarge Person (also Mass)
- Reduce Animal
- Reduce Person (also Mass)
- Righteous Might
- Others?

The main problem with all of these spells is that d20 does not even follow its own rules for size increases (from M.M. Table 4-2: Changes to Statistics by Size). Every single one of these spells (above) uses a different set of stat changes.

As others on this message thread have pointed out, using the MM table would cause some of the spells to be too powerful, but why didn't they follow their own rules and just increase/decrease the spell levels accordingly?

Huge problems with ballance already exist. For example, compare Animal Growth (level-5) to Righteous Might (level-5).
- Both are the same level
- Animal Growth can affect multiple targets (Righteous Might is personal only)
- Animal Growth is 1 min/level (Righteous Might is 1 rnd/level)
- Animal Growth gets +8 str (Righteous Might is +4 str)
- Animal Growth gets +4 con (Righteous Might is +2 con)
- Animal Growth gets DR/10 magic (Righteous Might is DR/ 3 or 6 or 9 evil)
- Animal Growth gets +4 bonus on all saves (Righteous Might gets none)

(Note: Righteous Might numbers above are using WotC errata to the spell).

By all accounts, Animal Growth is a far superiour spell (in the hands of a druid who summons natures allies, it can be deadly). So currently, there is NO ballance anyway.

I would have really loved to see WotC use a single table for size increases, and stick to it for all spells that involved size increases.

 

[ARandomGod]

LOL, who in his (or her) right mind would do that!? And I do not speak of the 500 XP.

Bye
Thanee

ExActLy.
I'd say instead get yourself a cloak with continuous enlarge, suppressible on command. That way you can be big when it's wanted, and not when it isn't. For fun, throw a continuous reduce, also suppressible on command, on the cloak. Now you've got your pick of three sizes, whichever is best for the occassion.

 

[Seeten]

The Cloak of Growing and Shrinking. I'm making one.

 

[Nail]

For a stackable 1st level defensive spell for spell casters, Reduce Person is great! +1 to attacks (such as Ranged Touch rays), +2 AC (+1 size, +1 Dex), +4 Hide, no reduction in movement rate.

Sure, you take the hit in grapple checks...but hey: you weren't gonna win any of those opposed checks anyway.

 

[Bront]

By all accounts, Animal Growth is a far superiour spell (in the hands of a druid who summons natures allies, it can be deadly). So currently, there is NO ballance anyway.

I would have really loved to see WotC use a single table for size increases, and stick to it for all spells that involved size increases.

Animal growth would be a superior spell if were not for the fact that it effects ONLY animals. That limits it's effectiveness. And if you have to chain it with other spells, it's even worse (more in combat casting time).

Spell size increases and monster improvement size increases are scaled differently for balance reasons. Otherwise, an enlarged CR 1 monster would effectively become a CR 2 monster.

The Damage and Reach aditions are why you use the Enlarge spell, and why it's an effective first level spell even at higher levels. There are other reasons to use it though. I've had a character cast it on the fighter to give him additional leverage to move a large stone. It could be a great intimidation ploy. It's fun to combine with reach weapons (I love using it with the spiked chain). Be creative.

Also keep in mind that if you don't have room, it doesn't happen fully. You can laugh when someone enlarges in an Inn and has to kneel down due to a low cleiling. Things like that.