Enlarge Person with Large humanoids Added: Expansion discussion

[Arknath]

LOL...i would hardly think so.

Yeah...it's a tough call. I'm debating with one of my player's (the race creator) about how it affects the game balance. His character was a grappler and of course the wizard in the party saw the "+8 to grapple checks" on the size Huge chart and thought "Why the heck not?". The character has left the party (thank the gods) and now i'm trying to solidify the fact that it's worth an +2 LA (large size and 3 natural attacks). So, I do not believe the intention of the game designers was to great a situation where a PC could start out large and then be affected by an enlarge person spell.

Is this what you all have found in your games?

 

[calypso15]

LOL...i would hardly think so.

Yeah...it's a tough call. I'm debating with one of my player's (the race creator) about how it affects the game balance. His character was a grappler and of course the wizard in the party saw the "+8 to grapple checks" on the size Huge chart and thought "Why the heck not?". The character has left the party (thank the gods) and now i'm trying to solidify the fact that it's worth an +2 LA (large size and 3 natural attacks). So, I do not believe the intention of the game designers was to great a situation where a PC could start out large and then be affected by an enlarge person spell.

Is this what you all have found in your games?

Just a quick note... it would be a +4 on grapple checks. The PC already gets +4 for being Large size. Going up to Huge would give them another +4.

Not sure if you knew that already, but thought I'd clear it up.

 

[Eloi]

Would it not be rather easy to curtail the employment of this strategy by enticing the group underground? In tunnels, where the Large members would already be squeezing just to get down corridors, no Enlarge spell is likely to be used.

Of course, on the other hand, if the Wizard is just getting an enormous kick out of the Enlarge spell being so handy, you could just let him run with it for a while. Does your campaign have any spellthieves?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Hmmmm...maybe we make the two larger subspecies in this race monstrous humanoids to prevent that problem from arising.

You can read the descriptions for some pointers, too. Like this: "They [humanoids] usually are Small or Medium."

And: "Monstrous humanoids are similar to humanoids, but with monstrous or animalistic features." Is the 'cat person' animalistic and not Small or Medium?

Another option: "A giant is a humanoid-shaped creature of great strength, usually of at least Large size."

Personally, I think the gnoll is incorrectly typed.

 

[QuaziquestGM]

It must suck to be a low level monsterous humanoid caster.....

A lot of the spells only work on your "kind of people" at higher level.

Charm person
Enlarge person
reduce person
() person....

 

[Christian]

Would it not be rather easy to curtail the employment of this strategy by enticing the group underground? In tunnels, where the Large members would already be squeezing just to get down corridors, no Enlarge spell is likely to be used.

Heh. That Large dragon almost made it into the tunnel before the Huge cat & my druid's summoned giant crocodile got a solid grip on it.

It wasn't running away. It was chasing the barbarian who, bless his simple soul, ran into the mouth of lair looking to smash some eggs. More muscles than brains doesn't even begin to describe him ...

Kitty-cat's retired, & the wizard's player is on a hiatus--Unca Sam sent him on a mandatory pleasure cruise on the Love Boat. But we're wanting to sort out the game balance aspects for future reference--is a +1 LA enough for a Large humanoid with net stat and skill bonuses? The homebrew races are getting kind of a playtest here.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Just rule that it's "enlarge person", not "enhuge person".

 

[Arknath]

Just a quick note... it would be a +4 on grapple checks. The PC already gets +4 for being Large size. Going up to Huge would give them another +4.

Not sure if you knew that already, but thought I'd clear it up.

I think i did but I was referring to the total grapple check (+8 size bonus). Thanks for making sure though, they can all get cloudy at times!

Would it not be rather easy to curtail the employment of this strategy by enticing the group underground? In tunnels, where the Large members would already be squeezing just to get down corridors, no Enlarge spell is likely to be used.

Of course, on the other hand, if the Wizard is just getting an enormous kick out of the Enlarge spell being so handy, you could just let him run with it for a while. Does your campaign have any spellthieves?

Yeah it is sort of easy to do that. I think I could come up with some situations where the tactic could not be easily (possibly) employed. However, it was more of a "How broken is this custom race typing" kinda question than a "This is the way it is, how can I make it difficult for them" kind of question. No spellthieves...yet!

You can read the descriptions for some pointers, too. Like this: "They [humanoids] usually are Small or Medium."

And: "Monstrous humanoids are similar to humanoids, but with monstrous or animalistic features." Is the 'cat person' animalistic and not Small or Medium?

Another option: "A giant is a humanoid-shaped creature of great strength, usually of at least Large size."

Personally, I think the gnoll is incorrectly typed.

Some great points here, Infiniti. I may point my players to this thread...

Heh. That Large dragon almost made it into the tunnel before the Huge cat & my druid's summoned giant crocodile got a solid grip on it.

...and speak of the devils. Didn't know you were here Christian (and replied to your other post not knowing it was you too! LOL). Yeah, that damned croc is vicious, i have no problem with that. 1 round per level...mean reptile. My poor dragon was out-thunk by a barbarian. Was much fun.

There WAS a time right before that where they had fought a young yellow dragon (Dragon Compendium Vol. 1) and his (the cat character's) size played a bit more of a factor than I thought it would. *shrugs*

Just rule that it's "enlarge person", not "enhuge person".

I LOVE IT!!


Seriously, like I'm telling my players, it's not that I want to squish an advantage a race may have over another, but I'm trying to make sure that this combo isn't too powerful. Expansion (which, the cat man happens to be a psychic warrior) makes the whole discussion moot anyway (and personally I think that they should have limited expansion like they limited enlarge person, but...who am i? ) but just wanted to get a general feel of how the community felt about this combo.

Thanks all for your feedback, keep it comin!

 

[Jeremy]

Heh. That Large dragon almost made it into the tunnel before the Huge cat & my druid's summoned giant crocodile got a solid grip on it.

It wasn't running away. It was chasing the barbarian who, bless his simple soul, ran into the mouth of lair looking to smash some eggs. More muscles than brains doesn't even begin to describe him ...

Aw c'mon. He coulda been doing it to provoke the dragon into attacking him rather than eating the wizard or the cleric. Or he coulda been doing it because like any mid level fighter he's handicapped by flying opponents who can attack at range and figured the cave would force him into reach. Or he coulda been doing it because squeezed the dragon's attacks and maneuverability would be severely impaired...

He MIGHT have had a smart idea... It's possible! I promise. ^_^

 

[Christian]

He MIGHT have had a smart idea... It's possible! I promise. ^_^

Hey ... it worked, so I can't complain. I was just worried that you'd end up fighting the dragon by yourself, because your Huge allies couldn't get into the cave to assist. That might have been ugly the other way ...

It was fun looking up the rules for escaping a grapple from multiple grapplers. That, and imagining a 12' long dragon being simultaneously grappled by a 16' tall anthropoid lion and a 25' long crocodile. Man, that can ruin your day.