ENnies Nominations for 2004

Umbran said:
As I understand it, there are not "various levels of voters". There are two different levels of con membership that allow you a vote. And you must have that membership prior to a certain date if you wish to vote. But once you have the vote, it is like everyone else's votes. There are not levels of votes of which I'm aware.
True, I didn't word it correctly. I ment to say there are various levels of membership which allow you to vote. (attending, non-attending, supporting)

Umbran said:
In order to make a final vote, you need to have a membership to the WorldCon at which the award will be given. This year, final voting closed on July 31st, iirc. Just a month before the con. So, you needed to have your membership a whole whopping month beforehand to vote. That's not so bad.
True, but you could also have purchased that membership several years in advance. You can currently purchase an attending membership to the 2005 and 2006 WorldCon right now.

Umbran said:
Compare to the Ennies - voting for the nomination panel happened when? How long before the con will final voting occur?
I don't remember exactly when the judges were voted for. April? Final voting will start later this week. We are discussing the feasability of starting everything earlier next year, to allow the companies more time to send in their nominations, allow the judges more time to review entries, and allow the voting to take place earlier.

Umbran said:
Fine. So GenCon won't have a solid broad awards program soon. That doesn't bother me.
Right now, the ENnies are the official awards of GenCon, but the ENnies are not the highlight of GenCon in many peoples eyes. We are just an awards ceremony that takes place at GenCon, and is blessed by GenCon. This is very different than the Hugos, which many (if not most) people consider to be the highlight of WorldCon. Right now GenCon does not revolve around the ENnies ceremony the way WorldCon does around the Hugos.
 
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Conaill said:
Would it be an option to host parts of the Ennies voting on different sites? What sort of segments of the rpg community does rpg.net tend to attract, for example? I never visit there, but for example if they have a wider non-d20 audience, we could do all the voting on non-d20 awards there.
I don't think that would be fair to split the voting among different locations. Regardless of where or how the voting takes place, I am quite certain the entire ballot will be available to all voters. If people do not feel qualified to vote in particular categories, they are always free to leave those categories empty on their ballots.
 

We really cannot get into specifics as to what, how, or when the voting for the ENnies will occur next year, or what will change in them, as the judges, Morrus, and the ENnies staff are still discussing it.

For now, our focus is on getting this years awards finished, and then we will be able to concentrate on making next years awards better. Sure, we know there are some problems, and there are things that we did better this year than were done in the past. Our goal is to make this years the best they have been, and then next year, make them even better. It's not something that can happen overnight.

In bringing up the Hugo awards, I really shouldn't compare the ENnies to them. They are a long term, established, and recognized award in the SF and literary field. I'm sure that at one point, the Hugos were trying to get themselves off the ground, and were going through many of the same issues we are figuring out right now. And they didn't have the internet to hash things out over, either. (But is that a good thing, or a bad thing?:))

So, lets get this years awards taken care of, and then we'll see what changes occur for next year. I can safely say that all the judges and staff want the ENnies to succeeed, and we are all going to do our best to make sure that they do.
 

Thanks CL. :) You guys have done a great job. Looking forward to taking part in the polls and knowing who wins.
 

Crothian said:
I'm a little ignorant on the Orgins Awards and why they are so unpopular. Its ironic since I always go to Origins though. I hear people complain about them but its rare theat I get a good feel for what the Origins Awards is doing wrong in peoples eyes. That should also help me understand how the ENnies are politicking here. So would you or someone be able to explain why the Origin awards are seen as they are? Thanks.

The Origins Awards have a pretty basic problem: any reasonable person can look at the nominees and see gaping holes and mediocre products. Considering that the staggering majority of gamers play D&D or WoD games, both those companies rarely have many entries in on the Origins ballot.

The big problem is that there's a massive divide between small and large companies. By throwing them both in the award process, the entire thing is pointless. If WotC wins, then all the people who pull for the little guy don't see in any point in having an award, since WotC will win every time. If WotC loses, all those gamers who buy and use WotC stuff and don't find much good stuff elsewhere in the industry see the awards as a joke. They don't understand how WotC couldn't win.

That's the basic problem.

The bigger problem is that two groups have fought over the OAs for so long, and so bitterly, that no one wants to get involved. You can't stand up and say "This is what's wrong with the OAs" without one group or the other putting you on their enemies list. The sides are so polarized that they cannot accept any sort of middle ground. In the process, the awards have nosedived into the ground. The OAs are a better indicator of who's popular with RPG freelancers than who can put together a good game.

Industry awards really don't have any economic value for larger, successful companies. OTOH, without their participation they have even less value for small companines. On top of all this, they have little value in terms of sales to begin with. I can only think of one small press product in the past few years - Magical Medieval Society - that was a break out sales hit, and the awards did more to highlight its success after the fact rather than ignite it.

The ENnies-OAs comparison that Moridin made stem from, I believe, a few key points:

* The rules seem to change every year. This is a big OA problem, especially since whoever is in charge of the OAs has carte blanche to change what they want or alter the ballot as they see fit. It's part of the power that comes with the position. It leads to inconsistency and lots of weird rulings, like Heroclix counting as a boardgame.

* WotC didn't participate. This is huge - I think it chops the awards' validity out from under them. I mean, EN World is a site about playing D&D. Look at the discussion boards - threads that talk about WotC and WotC products are common and have some of the highest post/view ratios. Look at how many people have read this thread compared to the one about Dungeon.

* There are about 10 million categories too many this year. About half the categories cover games that people on this site haven't heard of and probably don't even care about. If you want to capture the RPG.net crowd, you should make that clear. Otherwise, it's confusing to d20 gamers.

My sense is that the ENnies want to cover all of RPGs, and they want to showcase smaller companies that could supposedly benefit from the exposure. You need to figure out if that's what you really want to do, and if it is you need to get the word out so people know what the awards are really about.

If you tell people "These awards are for the best RPG products of the year" and their response is "Where's Draconomicon?", that's not a good sign. You can explain why it isn't there all you want - the basic point still stands. The book that they thought was obviously the best of the year isn't on the list. If you lose touch with your target audience, the game's up.
 


Thanks Mike. I'll try to address your points to the best of my knowledge. I'm not so much trying to defend or point out why the ENnies are this way as much as try to explain them.

mearls said:
* The rules seem to change every year. This is a big OA problem, especially since whoever is in charge of the OAs has carte blanche to change what they want or alter the ballot as they see fit. It's part of the power that comes with the position. It leads to inconsistency and lots of weird rulings, like Heroclix counting as a boardgame.

Ya, this is a problem. Behind the scene we went from being the d20 awards to being the RPG awards. That's because we are involved with Gen Con and they asked us to. I hope that at some point we don't have need for d20 and non d20 categories but since we are so attached to a d20 site. We have ideas for that, but we can only do this one year at a time.

* WotC didn't participate. This is huge - I think it chops the awards' validity out from under them. I mean, EN World is a site about playing D&D. Look at the discussion boards - threads that talk about WotC and WotC products are common and have some of the highest post/view ratios. Look at how many people have read this thread compared to the one about Dungeon.

I don't know why they didn't. But it is something we know we have to look into.

are about 10 million categories too many this year. About half the categories cover games that people on this site haven't heard of and probably don't even care about. If you want to capture the RPG.net crowd, you should make that clear. Otherwise, it's confusing to d20 gamers.

Ya, but we needed to open up to all RPGs and not have them bowled over by the d20 stuff. It is too many but it was the best we could do at the time.

My sense is that the ENnies want to cover all of RPGs, and they want to showcase smaller companies that could supposedly benefit from the exposure. You need to figure out if that's what you really want to do, and if it is you need to get the word out so people know what the awards are really about.

If you tell people "These awards are for the best RPG products of the year" and their response is "Where's Draconomicon?", that's not a good sign. You can explain why it isn't there all you want - the basic point still stands. The book that they thought was obviously the best of the year isn't on the list. If you lose touch with your target audience, the game's up.

Ya, I know. But we're sort of learning and growing as we go. We are stumbling along. :\
 

Crothian said:
Ya, I know. But we're sort of learning and growing as we go. We are stumbling along. :\

I view it as a natural progression. The awards are new, the processes are being tested upon and improved. Also, due the new Gen Con association, additional change in focus has been created. I think the ENnies are dead on and batting %1000 for their age and their focus/requirements. I'm expecting things to settle down over the next two years as change slows and the best proccesses are settled upon.

To me, the biggest problem with the OA is that they're very old and they have many more problems than a new award.

joe b.
 

I was talking to Keith Baker the other day, and from what he told me, it appears that Eberron was not included this year because it wasnt Eligible.

Why Dragonomicon and other books werent included, I dont know. Maybe someone should email WOTC and ask?
 

I just want to thank the Ennies committee for the honorable mention of Oathbound: Wrack & Ruin. Even if this is the same as saying that this was the 7th best product in the campaign setting category for the year, that is still an enormous honor in a year full of campaign setting books. It is an honor just to be nominated, or in this case, noticed.
 

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