[ENnies] WotC on the outs

jgbrowning said:


I think that, if an electronic product is free, it should only be allowed in the free product category and not in any others (excepting art/layout). Generally this is because I think people think more favorably about a free product than a for pay product. I think people consider value-for-expense when determining the overall quality of a product.

joe b.

That's one reason I think free products should only be in the free category (and art and layout). The other is one of exposure. When I'm voting, if there's a product that doesn't immediately leap to my mind as something I've bought, I click in the link.

Usually, I'm unfamiliar with it because I never bought it :)

This results in a no-vote (a vote of "I am unfamiliar with this product" or some such).

However, if it's a free product, I download it!

Why not? It's Free :)

This means, in effect, that all free products will get votes.

Chuck
 

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Yikes!

OK, I got back from a long journey from New York to London about an hour ago and I'm tired - so I apologise if I misunderstand anything here. :)

I've read through the thread, and I'm going to pick up on just a few of the points for now - the ones that stood out to me most clearly.

The ENnies have only existed for 3 years and I fully agree that they are evolving. The aim is to get the awards right (or as right as they can be) by asking for feedback and being as transparent and open as possible about how things work. Not everyone will be happy - that's impossible, as some poeple have diametrically opposed views, but I think that this year we made some good headway towards a great medium point.

1) The OGL/Non-OGL thing. The changes made this year were in response to a *lot* of feedback from people - fans and publishers. Perhaps the pendulum was swung back a little too far, perhaps not -- however, side by side with this issue are my longer-term pplans for the ENnies which I want to make as inclusive as possible. However, I didn't want to make mass sweeping changes in one year, so I felt it was best done over two years. Next year, you should find that WotC can enter any of their products, as can everybody else, while keeping the playing field as level as possible - categories will be revised next year, as will entry criteria. The non-OGL category was the start of this.

The important thing, though, is to keep the awards focused. We're not trying to cover the whole gamut of gaming here - that's the job of the Origins awards.

2) Ghostwind has made a few points which I feel are factually inaccurate:

--2a) I disagree that there is *anybody* who stands a greater or lesser chance of nomination. Popularity is definately not a factor in the nomination stage - that part is entirely down to critical evaluation of the products themselves. The judges are honest - I can attest to that fact, as I was present during the nomination porcess (although I had no say myself). I can assure everyone 100% that any product entered has exactly the same chance of nomination as another given equal quality.

--2b) There is no EN World membership requirement for voting. I'm not sure where that came from.

3) So, categories: yes, they should be clearer and, yes, there was some confusion amongst some publishers. That's solely down to me - my fault completely. However, any queries were easily dealt with by email, and next year I'll be very careful to make sure things are very clear.

4) Funding - there ain't none. This is how it works: Peter Adkison provides a venue for the ceremony, plus Gen Con passes and a hotel room for ENnies judges. That's it. I pay for the statuettes themselves, all the shipping costs of the entered products after they have arrived at the address for entries (it cost well over $1000 this year) plus my airfare to Gen Con (thanks to everyone who donated, by the way - you saved my bacon!). Would I like some funding? Sure! Would I like it if publishers didn't have to fund sending the products to the address for entries? Sure! [Although I really don't think the expense is exactly crippling - I myself pay far more shipping costs than any given publisher does]. Maybe something can be worked out.

However, I don't think that this is something that you guys need to concern yourselves about too much. That's a problem I have to deal with myself.

5) Small window for voting? Sounds like a reasonable point, and one that can be easily addressed.

Personally, I think the results this year were great. I was suprised ina couple of places, but that's not a bad thing. I don't think anyone got an award which they did not deserve. I most certainly think that the nominations were very fair.

If any publishers have serious reservations about how things work, then keeping quiet about it won't help. If you ask around, you'll find that I have been very receptive to comments made and am very open to suggestions. This will always be the case. I'd hate to think that someone was stewing over something in the corner and not coming forward, as Ghostwind suggests is happening.

If any publisher feels they don't stand a fair chance at nomination - ANY publisher - then they are wrong. I have a reasonable idea who the people who feel this way are, and I certainly invite them to approach me directly so that I can assure them that their fears are completely unfounded. I have to say that I've seen some of the most absurd conspiracy theories I've ever come across (mainly by fans of particular publishers, not the publishers themselves). Well, there ain't no conspiracy, there ain't no anti-Publisher X agenda, there ain't no bias or intent to exclude.

Anyway, more later. :)
 
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Just some comments:
Ghostwind said:
It has been made very clear to me that I should have never even broached the subject since more than one person, whom I admire and respect, has taken offense and resulted in a loss of friendship and/or respect.
Whoa. Who's got thin skin?
ColonelHardisson said:
I hope that even, perhaps I should say especially, the most unhappy of the d20 publishers should be posting to this thread.
I hope they *don't* - it would probably be best if they sent private emails to Morrus. Based on some reactions of some ENWorlders, their suggestions could be dismissed as "sour grapes" or something. Posting in a public thread isn't the best idea, I think, for publishers.
EricNoah said:
7) I would like to have other alternative voting schemes examined. For example, I felt that it was odd that you could rank 3 items and say "I don't know" to 2 items in a category. To me, it seems that if you don't know 2 of the 5 items in the category you should just skip the whole category.
What a terrible idea. If that were the case, I wouldn't have been able to vote for *any* category - and I spend more than $80 per month on d20 stuff. An awful idea.
 

Morrus said:

Next year, you should find that WotC can enter any of their products, as can everybody else, while keeping the playing field as level as possible - categories will be revised next year, as will entry criteria. The non-OGL category was the start of this.

Could you lend a bit of light on this, please?

Does it means that there will be lots of OGL category and lots of non-OGL category? Just in case, I think that the d20 field has improved the standard in gaming, and that WotC, if restricted to non-OGL, will rightfully dominate this category (that is, if they choose wisely which product to enter).

arnwyn said:

Originally posted by EricNoah
7) I would like to have other alternative voting schemes examined. For example, I felt that it was odd that you could rank 3 items and say "I don't know" to 2 items in a category. To me, it seems that if you don't know 2 of the 5 items in the category you should just skip the whole category.

What a terrible idea. If that were the case, I wouldn't have been able to vote for *any* category - and I spend more than $80 per month on d20 stuff. An awful idea.

I do not spend as much gaming €, but I have to agree with arnwyn here. You might have access to too much product to stay in tune with the community Eric, wanna gimme some ? ;)
 
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arnwyn said:
I hope they *don't* - it would probably be best if they sent private emails to Morrus. Based on some reactions of some ENWorlders, their suggestions could be dismissed as "sour grapes" or something. Posting in a public thread isn't the best idea, I think, for publishers.


/me shrugs

Either way, they should provide feedback. That was my main point.
 

Re: ENnies

Fiery James said:
Next year, we are winning our categories. That's all there is to it.

Really, bring on new judges, bigger companies (and most are bigger than us!), huge print runs, or free PDFs.

We're walking out win an ENnie in 2004.

I like the cut of your jib, Bell. Even if you were conveniently "out of the booth" both times I stopped by at GenCon. :)
 

Re: Re: ENnies

Pramas said:


I like the cut of your jib, Bell. Even if you were conveniently "out of the booth" both times I stopped by at GenCon. :)

Look who's talking! That's two years running - if I were the paranoid type I'd think you were avoiding me!

Next year, maybe. :)
 

Re: Re: Re: ENnies

Morrus said:
Look who's talking! That's two years running - if I were the paranoid type I'd think you were avoiding me!

Next year, maybe. :)

Yeah, there were a bunch of people I didn't get to see at all. As I mentioned on the general forum in the GenCon thread, this was partially due to me having to run Freeport games smack in the middle of the hall hours Th and Sat and partially due to my usual slate of meetings. I'm not ducking you, I swear. :)

I had hoped to get back to London for Dragonmeet again this year but it seems it's the same weekend as GenCon SoCal, which we've already committed to attending. Maybe Gaelcon will finally invite me...
 

Frankly, as a voter and owner of several of the products, I find very little to complain about. I thought this year's ENnies were really well-done and everyone who won fully deserved it, and the awards were VERY competitive.

Some suggestions to throw in the mix:
A few cats might need to open up. Art and Presentation don't quite constitute OGL, so should they really be considered d20 awards?

Not having judges would also confuse things; at least with judges you can agree on criteria for judgement. What is a setting supplement? How should it be judged etc?

And yes, a book can enter any cat it wants. An excellent product is often excellent all-around. Where would Mutants and Masterminds be without the killer art?

Also, best free product MUST BE original and NOT come from a larger product.

The other thing might be to extend the voting period, which was a wee bit short, I found.

And also a cat for Most innovative product. Why? Because I see publishers pushing the limits in various ways; electronically and more. Reward those that do.

Overall, I think this was great, and everybody involved in it should give themselves a pat on the back.
 
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Krug said:
A few cats might need to open up. Art and Presentation don't quite constitute OGL, so should they really be considered d20 awards?
I agree on this
Krug said:
Also, best free product MUST BE original and NOT come from a larger product.
Ummm...what exactly do you mean? For examply, in your opinion, would the Magical Medieval Society one be ineligible for Free Product because of the for sale product? I'm not demeaning this product, just using it as an example to gain understanding. I do not own the free or for-sale product.
Krug said:
And also a cat for Most innovative product. Why? Because I see publishers pushing the limits in various ways; electronically and more. Reward those that do.
That's an interesting idea. However, how many categories would that make then?
 

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