Entangle - A Little Too Strong For A 1st Level Spell?

[satori01]

IIRC 2e had it at a higher level.

Entangle was a 1st level spell in 1e, so I doubt it was a 2nd level spell in 2e.

1e Entangle:
level : 1 Components: V,S,M
Range: 8" Casting Time: 3 segements
Duration: 1 turn Saving Throw: 1/2
Area of Effect: 4" Diameter
Explanation/Description: By means of this spell the druid is able to cause plants in the area of effect to entangle creatures w/ in the area. The grasses, weeds, bushes, and even the trees warp, twist, and entwine about creatures, thus holding them fast for the duration of the spell. If any creature in the area of effect makes its saving throw, the effect of the spell is to slow its movement by 50% for the duration of the spell.

Now under 1E rules a duration of a turn meant 10 minutes. Now my memory of 1e area of effect rules is a bit hazy but a 4" diameter translates to a 40' diameter effect... of course this would be greater outdoors as all spell distances were magnified outside.

Overall the spell has not changed significantly, else to say that in 1e if you failed the saving throw there were no retries, and the spell lasted a blanket 10 minutes per level. Now Druids were not played often in 1e, but Nail, Frank and others, ... have you felt the spell was always overpowered in every edition?

 

[Nail]

Nail, you played a Mid Level Druid awhile back if memory serves correctly...did you feel at that time the spell was overwhelming?

Yes I did...as a 1st level spell. As a 2nd level spell, it's fine. It's simply NOT a 1st level spell.

When I play, I generally talk through my tactics with the other players, and then try to coordinate my tactics with theirs. When that works (not always!), the enemy dies quickly.

 

[IcyCool]

When I play, I generally talk through my tactics with the other players, and then try to coordinate my tactics with theirs. When that works (not always!), the enemy dies quickly.

*chuckle* That's true for any group, not just one that includes a druid...

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Entangle was a 1st level spell in 1e, so I doubt it was a 2nd level spell in 2e.

1e Entangle:
level : 1 Components: V,S,M
Range: 8" Casting Time: 3 segements
Duration: 1 turn Saving Throw: 1/2
Area of Effect: 4" Diameter
Explanation/Description: By means of this spell the druid is able to cause plants in the area of effect to entangle creatures w/ in the area. The grasses, weeds, bushes, and even the trees warp, twist, and entwine about creatures, thus holding them fast for the duration of the spell. If any creature in the area of effect makes its saving throw, the effect of the spell is to slow its movement by 50% for the duration of the spell.

Now under 1E rules a duration of a turn meant 10 minutes. Now my memory of 1e area of effect rules is a bit hazy but a 4" diameter translates to a 40' diameter effect... of course this would be greater outdoors as all spell distances were magnified outside.

Overall the spell has not changed significantly, else to say that in 1e if you failed the saving throw there were no retries, and the spell lasted a blanket 10 minutes per level. Now Druids were not played often in 1e, but Nail, Frank and others, ... have you felt the spell was always overpowered in every edition?

Gosh, give me that spell as a level 1 spell... oh... yeah plantwall lol.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Well, actually:



No "immobilized" there!

The PH 3.5e doesn't use the word "immobilized".....

....where are you finding that word?

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Immobilized is not a SRD defined word as far as I know. However "Entangled" is.

Here is the SRD definition for Entangled:

Entangled

The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell.

Since the tree branches, bushes, etc., are anchored to the ground (an immobile object) then being entangled impedes movement. If you entirely prevented from moving (as per the description for Entangle listed above) I would rule that it also means that you can't drop prone either.

Olaf the Stout

 

[hong]

Pretty easy answer for me. A spell that lasts all day, preventing on average 360 damage to yourself and constant fatigue, is way more powerful than a spell that impacts essentially one combat, and doesn't even stop most foes from attacking, just stops their movement and some of their combat abilities.

Nonsense.

 

[hong]

Combat utility is meaningless.

Nonsense.

That is not the measure of power in a role playing game, just a war game.

Such shining wit.

 

[hong]

Typical adventures often involve a dungeon or indoors area. This spell requires plants to be of any use, and most of those settings have no plants. Hence, it is often a useless spell.

Sure, it is powerful when your opponent is surrounded by plants...but that is relatively rare. I'd say it is not overpowered.

Nonsense.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Typical adventures often involve a dungeon or indoors area. This spell requires plants to be of any use, and most of those settings have no plants. Hence, it is often a useless spell.

Sure, it is powerful when your opponent is surrounded by plants...but that is relatively rare. I'd say it is not overpowered.

Do you run many wilderness adventures? Because grass, trees and bushes are all pretty commonly encountered outside. If all your adventures are in dungeons then Entangle won't see much use.

In my campaign though, encounters outdoors quite frequently include areas where the Entangle spell can be used.

Olaf the Stout

 

[IanB]

1E entangle *was* overpowered. Maybe it is my 1E experiences with it coloring my opinion, but I don't think 3.5e entangle is really anything to complain about.

Now if you want broken... check out plant growth.