Entangling Exhalation + DFA Slow Breath?

[RUMBLETiGER]

DO the effects of both of these combined stack? Which duration would apply?

Entangling Exhalation. Produces an Entangled Effect.

Slow Breath Produces a Slow Effect.

If they stack, Then the speed of the opponent is reduced by half, than half again. -3 on Attack. Those penalties exist in each effect.

Additionally, the opponent would lose -4 DEX, cannot run or charge, can only take a single move or standard action, - 1 AC, -1 Reflex Saves (Reflex saves would be affected by the reduced DEX)

Entangled Exhalation's duration lasts 1d4 rounds. Slow Breath lasts 2 rounds on a failed Fort save, 1 round on a successful Fort save. Which duration would apply?

 

[Wyvernhand]

You can't stack them on the same breath.

however, any creature that takes damage from your breath weapon becomes entangled and takes an extra 1d6 points of damage, of the same energy type as normally dealt by your breath weapon, each round at the start of your turn.

Slow Breath deals no damage, applying the Slow condition in place of damage. You could breath once, applying Entangling Exhalation with a normal damage breath, then breath again and apply Slow Breath on a successive round (or use the Quicken Breath feat, but that makes your recharge REALLY long).

If you did happen to subject a foe to both, you are correct in that they would stack. Half of half movement is quarter movement. If the target was also crossing over difficult terrain, their movement would be halved again (to 1/8th). A creature can always move at least 1 square with a full round action, regardless of how much it's movement speed is reduced (as long as it's non-zero).

DFAs are very effective debuffers. Also look into Weakening Breath, for -6 Str. Thats -3 hit and -3 damage, but stacked with Entangle, it's -5 hit, -3 damage, and -2 AC unless the foe is a Finesser, then it's -7 hit, -3 damage, and -2 AC.

 

[emoplato]

You can't stack them on the same breath.



Slow Breath deals no damage, applying the Slow condition in place of damage. You could breath once, applying Entangling Exhalation with a normal damage breath, then breath again and apply Slow Breath on a successive round (or use the Quicken Breath feat, but that makes your recharge REALLY long).

If you did happen to subject a foe to both, you are correct in that they would stack. Half of half movement is quarter movement. If the target was also crossing over difficult terrain, their movement would be halved again (to 1/8th). A creature can always move at least 1 square with a full round action, regardless of how much it's movement speed is reduced (as long as it's non-zero).

DFAs are very effective debuffers. Also look into Weakening Breath, for -6 Str. Thats -3 hit and -3 damage, but stacked with Entangle, it's -5 hit, -3 damage, and -2 AC unless the foe is a Finesser, then it's -7 hit, -3 damage, and -2 AC.

Entangling Exhalation is a feat not a breath effect so he can use both it just wouldn't deal damage.

 

[Wyvernhand]

I'm aware of that. But EE specifically states that the breath has to deal damage. No damage, no entangle. Slow Breath subs out the slow effect in place of damage. Slow Breath does not deal any damage. No damage, no entangle.

So yea, you COULD apply Entangling Exhalation to Slow Breath, but it wouldn't do anything. The duration would remain the same, normal for Slow Breath, and there would be no lingering damage or Entangled condition. It would be as if you didn't even use it, even if you did.

Thats the way the rules read. Trust me, I've looked for ways to get around that. I can't find any. Slow Breath takes away all damage from the breath, even damage from metabreath things like Breath Admixture. No damage, no entangle. Period.

 

[Sekhmet]

The wording of Entangling Exhalation says "instead of the normal effect".

To me, that reads "use this feat or use your breath in a different way".
However, if you wanted to play it with both in effect, one is an entangling and one is a slowing effect, so both could take effect simultaneously.
[MENTION=97681]Wyvernhand[/MENTION] Actually, Entangling Exhalation doesn't say that it requires the breath to deal damage. In relation to damage, it says "your breath weapon deals only half its normal damage" and "if your breath weapon doesn't deal energy damage, creatures damaged by the initial breath are still entangled, but don't take additional damage on later rounds".

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yes, but in all cases, it's still saying you're doing damage.

You need to do damage for EE to work.

 

[Sekhmet]

Yes, but in all cases, it's still saying you're doing damage.

You need to do damage for EE to work.

I don't see where it states that.

 

[Wyvernhand]

Ah, there is text in Races of the Dragon that isn't in the text in the link above.

If your breath weapon doesn’t deal energy damage, creatures damaged by the initial breath are still entangled but don’t take additional damage on later rounds

That is weird...how can a creature be "damaged by the initial breath" if the "breath weapon doesn't deal energy damage"?

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

That is weird...how can a creature be "damaged by the initial breath" if the "breath weapon doesn't deal energy damage"?

Right, hence my initial question.

But I honestly hadn't thought of alternating breaths every other round. That would allow me to do Damage with Entangling Exhalation, and still stack on Slow effects with the second breath. All good that way.

 

[Wyvernhand]

BTDubs,

If this is for your DFA WRT your other thread, the one about massive amounts of undeaders, I got some grim news. All of the Breath Effects that change your breath into something other than damage all require a Fort save.

Undead Type: Undead are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces.
Features: An undead creature has the following features.
—12-sided Hit Dice.
—Base attack bonus equal to 1/2 total Hit Dice (as wizard).
—Good Will saves.
—Skill points equal to (4 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die, if the undead creature has an Intelligence score. However, many undead are mindless and gain no skill points or feats.
Traits: An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
—No Constitution score.
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
—Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
—Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
—Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
—Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
—Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
—Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
—Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
—Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
—Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
—Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
—Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.

Bolded for emphasis. Slow Breath, Enfeebling Breath, Sleep Breath, Paralyzing Breath...none of these work on undead because they allow fort saves, do not affect objects, and are not harmless.

So...bummer. I found that one out the hard way when I made a DFA character for Expedition to Castle Ravenloft.