EOM compared to Core

[genshou]

1) Evoke spells are generally less capable of dealing damage (especially without scalable spells which increase damage dice per caster level for "free" as in core rules). Even with the "cheap" area of effect enhancements, overall damage dealt to individual targets is well below core standards.

2) Healing spells are much more useful and powerful, and get ridiculous when the Heal Specialist feat is used for packaged spells.

RW, are you trying to send the message that we should be decreasing PC fatalities?

 

[Bayonet_Chris]

Meshing core and EOM

I think you're missing a major point - the integration of the core classes with the eom core. To properly mesh EOM into a core game, you'll have to essentially eliminate the Paladin, Ranger (both MageKnights), the Bard (TaskMage), all of the spellcasting primary classes (Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Sorcerer) and play with what you have left.

That leaves Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue, Mage, TaskMage, MageKnight as your base classes. For pure symmetry, I would replace the barbarian with some sort of fighter/rogue variant - a ranger sans spells.

That would leave a fighter, rogue, wizard, fighter/wizard, fighter/rogue, and rogue/wizard as your primary classes.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Actually, the point is mix-n-match, not mesh.

My game, which is at 2nd level, has a core druid and an EOM Druid working side by side.
I am running Eberron and treat EOM as the ancient magics and Core as the modern 'corperate' versions.


My Mage PC is currently Core, but plans on converting to EOM as he gets exposed to the system both in character and as a player.

I will let you know if I run across anything that required trimming, but so far no issues

 

[genshou]

Yep, and Pledge of Tyranny (see sig) is a Forgotten Realms campaign which uses EoMR as its sole magic system. I'm using the Lyceian Arcana variants right alongside the actual core classes (with EoM caster level). For instance, the PC in the campaign is a gestalt Paladin/Fighter, but he fights right alongside other Exalten of Helm. I'm still trying to decide how I should split up NPC levels for FR's more famous characters, but until the party actually meets one of them, it doesn't really matter.

The fact is that it works. I've HR'd the caster level for EoM Clerics and Druids to be the same as the Mage IMC, and also given them free uses per day of spells that fall under the "channeling" and "wild shape" functions. I never understood why those two classes had the lower caster level, since they peaked out at 9th-level spells at 17th-level, the same level as the wizard. RW, can you give me some insight into that particular choice?

 

[RangerWickett]

Yep, and Pledge of Tyranny (see sig) is a Forgotten Realms campaign which uses EoMR as its sole magic system. I'm using the Lyceian Arcana variants right alongside the actual core classes (with EoM caster level). For instance, the PC in the campaign is a gestalt Paladin/Fighter, but he fights right alongside other Exalten of Helm. I'm still trying to decide how I should split up NPC levels for FR's more famous characters, but until the party actually meets one of them, it doesn't really matter.

First, let me say I think this is very cool. I'm thrilled to see EOM being used in a core setting.

The fact is that it works. I've HR'd the caster level for EoM Clerics and Druids to be the same as the Mage IMC, and also given them free uses per day of spells that fall under the "channeling" and "wild shape" functions. I never understood why those two classes had the lower caster level, since they peaked out at 9th-level spells at 17th-level, the same level as the wizard. RW, can you give me some insight into that particular choice?

While the core rules versions of clerics and druids have somewhat weaker spells compared to wizards (not always, but often), I needed a different way to balance their higher BAB, HD, and saves against mages. The lower caster level is even more important now that I'm planning to make it official that MP Limit should be equal to hit dice, not just caster level. But the next EOM release I have scheduled is a modern one, which uses a very different system.

And which needs art. Hmm.

 

[genshou]

First, let me say I think this is very cool. I'm thrilled to see EOM being used in a core setting.

We started out with the core rules, but after buying EoM, I just had to suggest the change to my player. It's been a major overhaul, but also a worthwhile one. Your book deserves to be used in a world like Forgotten Realms.

While the core rules versions of clerics and druids have somewhat weaker spells compared to wizards (not always, but often), I needed a different way to balance their higher BAB, HD, and saves against mages. The lower caster level is even more important now that I'm planning to make it official that MP Limit should be equal to hit dice, not just caster level. But the next EOM release I have scheduled is a modern one, which uses a very different system.

Ah, I was wondering if that was the reason you made that adjustment. It doesn't work as well in a world like Forgotten Realms (where arcane and divine really need to be equal, especially with the ridiculous amount of epic-level arcane caster NPCs they populated the world with). I suppose it's mostly the difference in usable MP per day that bugs me. Especially when the cleric or paladin has to expend MP in order to use their undead turning class ability.

 

[Night Watchman]

Speaking of coverting existing games to EoM, I'm using d20 Modern and I'd like to import the EoM system into a. existing game without having to restart the game or forcing the players to waste all of their magic user levels and going through all of the rigamorol of replacing the magic user classes with normal classes and having them deal with the magical skills as presented in the Mythic Earth preview.

Can I just switch out the D20 Modern spell levels for the EoM ones and call it good? Or is there some dark and hidden reason that I shouldn't?

 

[genshou]

Speaking of coverting existing games to EoM, I'm using d20 Modern and I'd like to import the EoM system into a. existing game without having to restart the game or forcing the players to waste all of their magic user levels and going through all of the rigamorol of replacing the magic user classes with normal classes and having them deal with the magical skills as presented in the Mythic Earth preview.

Can I just switch out the D20 Modern spell levels for the EoM ones and call it good? Or is there some dark and hidden reason that I shouldn't?

The only reason I can see is that the EoM spell costs-as they presently stand-don't suit a d20 Modern game. You would need to bump up the MP cost of Heal spells by a bit, and Move spells by a great deal. Taking considerations such as these into account, however, EoM can be adapted for d20 Modern/Future/Past/Apocalypse/BOOGAHBOOGAH! as easily as it can be dropped into D&D.

 

[RangerWickett]

Speaking of coverting existing games to EoM, I'm using d20 Modern and I'd like to import the EoM system into a. existing game without having to restart the game or forcing the players to waste all of their magic user levels and going through all of the rigamorol of replacing the magic user classes with normal classes and having them deal with the magical skills as presented in the Mythic Earth preview.

Can I just switch out the D20 Modern spell levels for the EoM ones and call it good? Or is there some dark and hidden reason that I shouldn't?

It is quite easy to just swap levels of D20 Modern Mage, Acolyte, and other similar advanced classes for the EOM Mage, Taskmage, and Mageknight, though you'd want to fiddle with them a bit to make them appropriate as advanced classes, and to add in necessary D20 Modern elements like Reputation and Defense bonuses and different skill lists.

Mythic Earth presents its own 'Mage' advanced class (complete with a note that, yes, the name Mage is already taken, but it's the best name, and it's not like most people would use both Mages in the same game). The ME rules assume that usually characters will have access to magic at 1st level (though it's dinky until about 4th level), but you could fairly easily say that characters have to take the Mage advanced class before they can actually take any magical skills.

ME is different from standard EOM in that the spell creation system is streamlined significantly. Since everything is a magical skill, I was able to get things like divination and dispelling to make more sense in context of the system. Sure, the ~20 elemental attack side effects aren't all included, but there are 8 primary ones (acid, cold, death, electricity, fire, life, mental, and sonic). Sure there aren't strict listings of what all you can do with Create, but the spell is set up now so that MP cost is related to monetary cost, so you can say "I'm going to create light; that's like a flood lamp, which has Purchase DC x, so it's a y-level spell."

Basically, ME feels better to me in play style than core EOM does. It's also designed with d20 Modern in mind, with regards to things like making magic items (Purchase DCs and action points instead of gold and XP), massive damage save (slightly lower damage on spells), and availability of healing.

I hope to have the EOM teaser available this evening or tomorrow.

 

[genshou]

I hope to have the EOM teaser available this evening or tomorrow.

Yay! I'm so excited!