EoM-R Questions Continued...

[Primitive Screwhead]

Very nice...

One factor to consider on it.. if someone blunders into the spinning mass of sod, how to rule?

Perhaps pushed back ala bullrush with 1D4 points of damage?
STR Check to push through the mass, DC somewhere around 35 with a circumstance mod of +/-2 for each size larger/smaller than medium? This way a large strong critter could barrel its way into the center, possibly taking 1D8 damage for each square moves into. Smaller critters would get bowled over and shoved out of the mass of dirt.

This would make the spell very nice for walking out of a mass of enemies...

 

[Verequus]

Perhaps pushed back ala bullrush ... and shoved out of the mass of dirt.

Somehow this reminds of the situation, where you push someone slowly towards a cliff - and beyound. Or simply pushing against a wall would be enough to kill weaker foes slowly. Too good?

 

[sirwmholder]

...The only objection I have is a tendency to try to keep the mechanics to match across similar situations..

I took this advice to heart and was reexamining the spell again... I found something that doesn't make much sense and I was wondering if anyone else has made a house rule restricting Move [Force]... The problem I found was the strength chart listed in Move [Force] is well under the amount of strength you would need to move that much mass... attached is a revised chart I'm currently using for Move [Force]... I used the heavy load / Max Lift numbers straight from Core Rule Book 1.

Very nice...

Thanks but it looks like my house rule will kill the spell for good.

One factor to consider on it.. if someone blunders into the spinning mass of sod, how to rule?

Perhaps pushed back ala bullrush with 1D4 points of damage?
STR Check to push through the mass, DC somewhere around 35 with a circumstance mod of +/-2 for each size larger/smaller than medium? This way a large strong critter could barrel its way into the center, possibly taking 1D8 damage for each square moves into. Smaller critters would get bowled over and shoved out of the mass of dirt.

I would use the strength listed in the spell to push back anyone trying to enter... which is one of the things that brought this HR to fruition.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Using the STR score to push people around makes sense.. but what to do if the critter 'wins' and pushes into the spinning mass?

As to the revised Move Force.. your logic is sound... and it would kill the spell.. perhaps this is one area that its good to have magic break the rules..

Calling RW!!! Whats your take on the STR table presented above?

 

[genshou]

The listed Str bonus is only for uses of the spell that pertain to bull rush, trip, grapple, etc. attacks at range. The other function of the spell is separate, so the numbers do not have to correlate in any fashion.

 

[sirwmholder]

Thank you so much for your responses... I love this type of discussion on game mechanics... ok I'm weird

Using the STR score to push people around makes sense.. but what to do if the critter 'wins' and pushes into the spinning mass?

I would treat the creature as grappling with the sod... each round the creature stays inside the swirling mass he takes 3d8 of damage and displaces that much earth... effectively weakening the spell each round he is there... each round he makes opposed strength checks... if the creature fails he is pushed out of the mass. Conversely a creature can choose to end his grapple early and retreat out of the mass without sustaining further damage. Since the creature is being treated as grappling he still doesn't threat the caster... all in all a creature could do it... but I wouldn't do it.

As to the revised Move Force.. your logic is sound... and it would kill the spell.. perhaps this is one area that its good to have magic break the rules..

I'm not opposed to magic breaking the rules... but I like cohesion... besides I used the numbers for Max Lift... if a player character or a creature were to have that much strength and lift that much weight all they could do would be staggering around at a 5' movement as a full round action... the spell still allows movement at a base speed of 30'.

The listed Str bonus is only for uses of the spell that pertain to bull rush, trip, grapple, etc. attacks at range. The other function of the spell is separate, so the numbers do not have to correlate in any fashion.

I see your point though to be honest the spell is just too good as is... for example... Move Force 8/ Move Air 4 / General 3 [Area/Range]... 15 MP spell... PC Mage ~ "That evil wizard has built a fortress on the top of a mountain... watch this! I'll ignore weight... that castle is Colossal sized ( since nothing is bigger than Colossal )... so I'll lift the castle and move it 150' over the edge of the mountain and end the spell... better yet... the mountain it's on is Colossal sized... so I'll lift the entire mountain rotate it until it's upside down with the castle at the bottom and drop it back down..." As a DM I don't mind world changing magic at very high levels (20+) but I'd rather not let a PC have that much power at level 15. Since I was upping the MP cost for the size I threw a carrot and increased the amount of strength that the spell generated as well... if you notice a lot of the numbers are close (2MP will still effect 800lbs. up to medium sized... 4MP will still give 35 strength)... I dropped the 3MP and 6MP entries and continued to scale it up at 2MP per 5 strength... but I grouped it together in 3's so you would only have entries when the size category changes... there is also a logic to the way I calculated the lower cost MP... I started with 1 and doubled to 2, doubled to 4, doubled to 8 and then went to six per increase... which works out pretty fairly in my honest opinion.

Thanks so much for the comments! On a side note I sent an e-mail to RangerWicket but haven't heard back on this yet.

Thanks so much for your time,
Wm. Holder

 

[RangerWickett]

Thanks so much for the comments! On a side note I sent an e-mail to RangerWicket but haven't heard back on this yet.

For some reason my email account doesn't like messages sent from EN World, and it tosses them in the junk folder (probably because you aren't sending the message, EN World is, so it can't verify your address).

I haven't used EOM-R myself for more than a year now; I know Mythic Earth a bit more intimately, and I don't have EOM-R available right now (I'm answering from a public workstation), so I can't answer right now about the table in particular.

However, items can certainly be bigger than colossal. I believe I use the term 'whoppin' the few times I feel the need to quantify these larger sizes.

 

[Verequus]

While the SRD has extended the sizes beyound Collossal via Collossal+, ++, +++, etc., I prefer the mechanics in the Immortals Handbook - Bestiary. It even includes a better weight drop (like being crushed by big rocks) damage table. Even alone for the short section of new mechanics in the beginning the price of the book is worthy, but I wouldn't miss the rest myself. You have to see it with your own eyes to know that this book is worth every second you spend with it. And no, I don't get anything for the sales promotion.

 

[sirwmholder]

...I haven't used EOM-R myself for more than a year now; I know Mythic Earth a bit more intimately, and I don't have EOM-R available right now (I'm answering from a public workstation), so I can't answer right now about the table in particular.

That's cool... this is just a change I would feel more comfortable with before I would allow it at my table . My group isn't ready for Mythic Earth just yet... I've been reading through the rules and I like what I see... I love how things have been streamlined... I just don't see it working with my group just yet...

However, items can certainly be bigger than colossal. I believe I use the term 'whoppin' the few times I feel the need to quantify these larger sizes.

I can definitely see your point here... also something to keep in mind is size is a relative term. Something that is Large to a Hill Giant would be Huge to Human... so maybe going with a straight weight limit dropping the size limitation altogether would be the most beneficial. What do you think?

While the SRD has extended the sizes beyound Collossal via Collossal+, ++, +++, etc., I prefer the mechanics in the Immortals Handbook - Bestiary. It even includes a better weight drop (like being crushed by big rocks) damage table. Even alone for the short section of new mechanics in the beginning the price of the book is worthy, but I wouldn't miss the rest myself. You have to see it with your own eyes to know that this book is worth every second you spend with it. And no, I don't get anything for the sales promotion.

Thanks for the heads up RuleMaster... I may have found my next purchase... That's the Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary correct? Just checking I didn't know if there was an unEpic version out there too

Thanks again guys, keep it coming,
Wm. Holder

 

[RangerWickett]

I can definitely see your point here... also something to keep in mind is size is a relative term. Something that is Large to a Hill Giant would be Huge to Human... so maybe going with a straight weight limit dropping the size limitation altogether would be the most beneficial. What do you think?

Consider, though, that if you put an actual weight limit, players are going to argue about weight of objects. It's much easier to gauge the size of something than it is to figure out its weight. I'd be more tempted to drop the weight limit and replace it with a size only version, perhaps with a provision that particularly dense things like steel and neutronium would count as higher size categories.