EoM: Rev and EoM: ME revisited

ruleslawyer

Registered User
So, dear fellow ENWorlders (and especially the author of the above-referenced products):

I've been re-reading these products recently, since we may be using them in an upcoming game, and realized something; namely, that while I like the skill-based casting mechanic in EoM: ME much better than the MP mechanic in EoM: Rev, I feel like some of the actual individual effects listed in EoM:Rev may have been lost in translation. Namely, I can't really figure out how any of the following effects works in EoM:ME:

-Generating/controlling weather (Create Air in EoM:Rev)
-Creating an antipathy/sympathy or magic circle-type effect on a creature, object, or area (hedging effect of the Abjure method in EoM:Rev)
-Binding a creature within a certain area or in magical restraints (binding effect of the Hex method in EoM:Rev)
-Weakening a creature's abilities, DR, energy resistance, et cetera (all effects of the Hex method in EoM:Rev)

So here are my questions:

1) Should the Create skill in EoM:ME be broad enough to encompass the entire range of effects listed for Create-related effects in EoM:Rev? If so, how do you calculate the "object cost" of something like generating weather using the EoM:ME system?

2) How does one generate bindings, hedges, (un)holy damage, (un)holy auras, or curse effects using the EoM:ME system?

I'd love an answer, if either RangerWickett or anyone else has one!
 

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I have only the ME version of Elements of Magic, but I think I can help ya out. There's no way to acuratly "price" how much it would cost to create a storm, so the surest thing you could do is convert the Control Weather spell from 3E to ME following the spell conversion guidelines given in the book. As far as creating hedges go, such an enhancement is naturally a falls under the Defend skill. Here's what I canme up with (though I remain uncertain of just how good it really is):

• Circle of Protection (+5): Choose one type of supernatural entity (outsider, elemental, fey, undead, etc.). For the spell’s duration, creatures of the selected type whose challenge rating does not exceed your caster level may not make any kind of physical contact with the warded creature or object, nor can they cross areas warded by this spell.

Weakening a creature's abilities, DR, energy resistance, and all that jazz would fall under the Affliction section of the Attack skill. Here's the enhancement I'm using for hexes:

• Hex (+5): You place a minor curse on the affected creature, imposing a -2 penalty to one ability score and a -1 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks, and skill checks. For each 3 additional spell levels, you may double the penalties imposed by the hex.

You could add in the DR/Energy Resistance/whatever in with Hex or make another hex like enhancement along those same lines. Moving on, you could easily write unholy damage off as death damage in ME (as they are fundamentally the same thing: negative energy). I honestly don't know how to deal with holy damage; how's this set up sound:

• Celestial damage affects only unnatural beings such as Evil Outsiders and the Undead, dealing normal damage to such beings while leaving natural creatures unharmed.

Binding is hard to classify; becasue it's intended to hold a creature against it's will it could fall under Attack, though given it's nature, it could jsut as easily fall under Summon. In the end, it depends on which skill you believe is the most approprate.

Hope this helps out and dreadfully sorry you haven't gotten more responses. Honestly, it would seem that any thread that doesn't have "True20" in the title goes completly ignored around here.
 
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Yes, there are a few areas that it seems EoM:ME is lacking in - designing Traditions, and quantifying some of the powers being that major ones.

A good system, but balancing new traditions looks to be a pain the nether regions. (Trying to use it for a Spycraft 2.0 game... I could do without the cute/funny traditions, and a few more serious/historic ones.)

I have not even tried to tackle weather control magics, more because it had not occured to me than anything else, but given that the setting being run is in a steampunkish 1880s with gyrocopters, derrigibles, and ornithopters the ability to control the weather might be key....

The Auld Grump
 

Gunpowder_Treasoner said:
I have only the ME version of Elements of Magic, but I think I can help ya out...

Hope this helps out and dreadfully sorry you haven't gotten more responses. Honestly, it would seem that any thread that doesn't have "True20" in the title goes completly ignored around here.
Thanks so much, Gunpowder_Treasoner! And your first post too! Much obliged!

Those values seem pretty good to me; it does look like Control Weather or Control Elements gets tricky. Maybe we can convince RangerWickett to write an addendum that addresses those effects!
TheAuldGrump said:
Yes, there are a few areas that it seems EoM:ME is lacking in - designing Traditions, and quantifying some of the powers being that major ones.
I'd agree. I asked EoM:ME's designer about traditions a few months back; he did suggest a set of criteria, but they were quite fluid.

IMHO, if you're running a Spycraft game, you may want to take some of the traditions out of the Fantasy section for a more serious bent. I'd say it's just a little work to make them conform to Jungian archetypes or serious historic traditions. Also, IIRC, Lyceian Arcana (supplement for EoM:Revised) has some traditions that could be adapted to use.
 

ruleslawyer said:
Thanks so much, Gunpowder_Treasoner! And your first post too! Much obliged!

Think nothing of it; I truly love the ME system as it is a much needed relief from the over-used and anal retentive Vancian Magic system. Incidently, could the traditions listed under the fantasy sections and in Lyceian Arcana be used for d20 Modern? I ask because I've decided to cut the cutesy Traditions in the modern section and merged other traditions into a single ambigious tradition to better reflect historical mystical beliefs, which has, needless to say, limited the selection quite a bit. Also, would it be alright if I post up some of the houserules I'm suing on this thread to get them screened, and thus ensure they are indeed balanced?
 

I certainly think you can use the fantasy traditions for d20 Modern; in fact, I'd argue that they may be a bit weak. Singing Blade, for instance, rocks in d20 fantasy, but is significantly less useful for Modern campaigns.

As for EoM:ME house rules; I'm not a mod, but feel free to post here! I'll be happy to discuss house rules with you!
 

Thank you kindly. I had no intention of using Singling Blade (as my combination of Norse Runecasting and Wuxia Sorcery should be good enough for warrior mages), just Magefire, Unity Song, and Wild Spellcraft. A lot of the changes I made to the basic system are mainly superfical flavor changes (I re-named all of the magic skills and lumped Summon in with Create, changed the name of mishaps to backlash, spontanious magic to creative thaumaturgy, signature spells to evocations, ritual spells to invocations, spellcasting penality to ravaging, and added in a few new rules). I've also intigrated Knowledge (arcane lore) into Spellcraft as I've never seem much practical application for knowledge skills outside of skill synergy and ritual casting:

Spell Failure and Drawbacks:
Margin of Success or Failure Effect
+20 or greater Spell is cast successfully, gain 1 mana
0 to +19 Spell is cast successfully
-1 to -5 Spell is cast successfully, lose 1 mana, ravaging
-6 to -10 Spell fails, lose 1 mana, ravaging
-11 to -20 Spell fails, lose 2 mana, backlash, flux


Spell Component: Mages in my setting have the option of using any one of the following components to cast their spells. Only one of the components is needed to successfully cast a spell, chosen before the spell is cast. Should a mage ever attempt to cast a spell with out a component, she suffers a -4 penalty to the spellcasting check and must succeed at a Will save (DC 15), or take 2 points of Wisdom damage from the strain channeling unfocused magical energies puts on her mind.

Verbal: To cast a spell with a verbal component, a character must speak in a firm voice. If the character cannot speak, he or she can’t cast such a spell. A spellcaster who has been deafened has a 20% chance to spoil any spell he or she tries to cast if that spell has a verbal component.

Somatic: To cast a spell with a somatic component, a character must gesture freely with at least one hand. A character can’t cast a spell that has a somatic component while bound, grappled, or with both hands full or occupied.

Material: A material component can be any object, weapon, device or a small amount of some substance that the caster must have on hand. Unless otherwise specified, any material component may be used multiple times without detriment to the object. Wands and staves are treated as universal material components all mages can use. Internal implants may not be used as a material component.

Symbolic: A symbolic component can be magical symbols or runes of any size or complexity that can be inscribed on any surface (wood, paper, flesh, etc.). As long as the caster remains within five feet of her symbols, she may continue to cast spells. Symbols inscribed in tattoo form are good for 15 spells; afterward, the tattoo fades into nothingness and becomes useless.
NOTE: I know this is very diffrent from the standard d20 spellcasting rules, but I feel by allowing the player to choose the spell component, it encourages creativity and adds a small level of personalization to their character. Naturally, with this option, the Silent/Still Spell feats are rendered moot, but I've always though that both feats are entirely useless anyway.

Spellcasting Modifier: Mages may choose Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma to be their “key spellcasting modifier,” which is used to determine how hard your spells are to resist, how many evocations you may have, and how much mana you may hold within your body.

Mana: You may have an amount of mana equal to your key spellcasting and Constitution modifier (referred to as “Vitae”). Under normal circumstances, you do not have to spend mana to cast spells; as long as you have at least 1 point of mana left in your body, you may continue to cast spells. You lose mana only when you botch a spell, or when you spend it on a mana cosuming action.
Your inner Numina produces fresh mana for every 8 hours you go without performing any manner of magical feat (this includes all invocations, and thaumaturgic spells). Mana may also be collected from a Leyline (a natural “wellspring” of mana) with a successful Concentration check (DC 20) while in the presence of an active leyline. You may harvest a single point of mana by succeeding at a Concentration check (DC 25) while standing in the presence of a raging storm of the rising sun (only 1 point of mana per day can be collected in this way). You may only hold an amount of mana equal to your Vitae; all excess mana will simply be wasted and evenly dispersed to the surrounding environment.
You may continue to cast spells without mana by taking a single point of Flux for each spellcasting attempt.

Flux: Whenever a mage horribly botches a spellcasting check, he begins to amass Flux, a terrible anti-magic entity that forms in the wake of a violent ravaging that creates fragments of corrupted mana within the mages body. Every point of flux a mage amasses imposes a -1 penalty to spellcasting checks for a number of days equal to half the spell’s level, and deals an amount of lethal damage equal to the spell’s total level. Damage inflicted by flux cannot be healed magically in any way; it must heal naturally. Flux will disappear after a number of days equal to half the spells originally level, though you may spend 2 mana to alleviate a single point of spellburn.
Should a mage ever amount 10 points of flux, he must succeed at a Will save (DC 10 + current ravaging penalties + total flux) or die horribly in a savage eruption of wild magical energies. Even if on a success, the mage still takes 5d6 points of fire damage, 2d4 points of ability drain to all ability scores, and permanently loses the ability to cast spells.

Finally, I'm considering using a Template to apply to all Mage characters in my setting, as the mythos I'm using sets them apart from normal humans. The template is acquired as soon as the mage takes his first Tradition feat and begins generating mana (though that little rule will be subject to change in my ever mutating mythos). It's based primarily off of Jim Butcher's Dresden Files, along with influences from Earthsea and a few other wizardly works of liturature.

“Methuselah” is an acquired template that may be added to any human (referred to hereafter as the “base creature”). It retains all of the base creature’s statistics and special qualities except noted as here.

Type: Add the “Methuselah” sub-type.
Special Qualities: A methuselah retains all of the base creature’s special qualities in addition to the following:

Body of the Sanctioned (Ex): Methuselah are immune to all forms of disease and suffer no ill effects from exposure to radiation, in addition to benefiting from a +4 racial bonus to Fortitude saves made to resist poison. A Methuselah’s massive damage threshold is equal to 1.5 x his Constitution score. Methuselah have an average lifespan of 500 years, and do not physically age over the course of their long lives, thus exempting them from age related penalties.
Rapid Metabolism (Ex): Methuselah naturally heal a number of hit points per day equal to double the standard rate and treat any Ability Drain as temporary Ability Damage. Damaged ability points recover at the standard rate. Methuselah do not require rest to recover lost hit or ability points. If treated successfully by someone with the Treat Injury Skill, the methuselah regains double the standard amount of hit points.
Cantrips (Su): All Methuselah gain the following spells as spell like abilities (with a caster level equal to your total character levels): at will—arcane graffiti, detect magical aura, light, open/close, prestidigitation, read magic; 3/day—mage hand, mending; 1/day—clean

Feats: Methuselah receive the “Improved Damage Threshold” feat for free.
Skills: Methuselah receive a +2 racial bonus to Listen, Search, and Spot checks. A Methuselah that merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if he were actively looking for the door. Regardless of what class they are advancing in, Methuselah always treat Knowledge (theology and philosophy) and Spellcraft as class skills.

Also, is this Tradition balanced?

War Wizardry [Tradition]
You believe your study of the arts of war has given you the power to unleash arcane devastation upon your enemies.
Benefit: You gain the Harrowing Lore as class skills and receive a +2 bonus to Harrowing checks that do not have enhanced damage or enchant attack enhancements. All of your Harrowing spells that deal direct damage deal an extra +1d6 points of damage and benefit from a +1 bonus to the base save DC. If you spend one full round focusing your power before casting your Harrowing spell, the bonus increases by +1 for each round you do nothing but focus, to a maximum of +8.
Rituals: There are no rituals for this round.
Backlash: You take lethal damage equal to the spell’s level.
 
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