Epic Destinies and Earth Giants

[Felon]

Demispell - surely that is half as good as a real spell, yes? I've never got the idea that the demi prefix is used to mean 'really bad-ass' in D&Dland (demilich, demispell) rather than the 'half as good' as the normal usage would suggest

The prefix "Demi" doesn't tend to mean "half" as in "only half as good", but rather as in "half this, half something else". Thus, a demigod is a hybrid of god and something not a god, and might consider himself lucky to possess even half the power of a full god. OTOH, a demilich has some of the qualities of a lich, but it's also something else--presumably, something greater than a lich. The connotation with demilich and demspell seems to be that their other half is something so unique and unkown that there's no true word for it.

 

[Andor]

Just a question for all of those posters who are complaining about Earth Shock and that the Earth Giants throw rocks: What sort of abilities do you expect Earth Giants to have?

Earth giants? That sounds fine.

But if you're going to take endless paragraphs to tell me how awesometacular the Titans are, and how they helped the primordials shape the planes themselves in the beginning of all then they should have some kind of ability that reflects that. "Stomp hard" does not qualify. "Raise a wall of stone with a wave of your hand" is a good start, but apparently verboten because that might be role confusion. *rolls eyes* "Reshape the earth and rock of the battle field at will" is better yet, but again is too controllerish to be dared.

Really how hard is it to add something like:

Reshape the earth (minor, at will) Ranged 10, The Earth titan can make 3 squares of earth or stone floor into difficult terrain or even terrain.

Earth Titan Lore DC 30 - The Earth Titans ancient command over the rocks continues to this day. They can raise or lower pillars of earth or twisted stone at will. Wherever they pass they tend to leave strange formations of stone warped into fantastic shapes.

 

[Sojorn]

This very article:

Granted, it's from the intro rather than the excerpt, but it's there.

Hrm.

Thanks, but hrm.

 

[Voss]

Demispell - surely that is half as good as a real spell, yes? I've never got the idea that the demi prefix is used to mean 'really bad-ass' in D&Dland (demilich, demispell) rather than the 'half as good' as the normal usage would suggest

I assume that usage is coming from Demiurge or something similiar (in the sense of creation) unfortunately its been situated alongside other concepts like demilich (which, depending how you want to look at it, is even more awesome than a lich, or just a remnant of one), and demihuman (in the sense of sub- or partial human). They just don't have a consistent handle on metaphysics.

I wondered how long a hill giant would take to kill another hill giant, taking club average damage, hit probability and so on.

27-28 melee rounds.

Earth Titans can finish each other off slightly more quickly, at 22-23 melee rounds.

I have to say I find the giants damage uninspiring (and their strength seems paltry for their size - I wonder what is going on there?). Shouldn't bigger creatures have bigger weapons or something?

Cheers

Damage numbers are lower all around, it feels somewhat odd, but I think 3rd edition was the true aberration in this regard, with the 4e numbers a bit more consistent with the rest of D&D. Hit points are still fairly high, however, which is what drags these combats out. It avoids a problem with one shot kills and easy fights, but I worry that it can drag on for too long and the fights become dull.

 

[Wolfwood2]

I have to say I find the giants damage uninspiring (and their strength seems paltry for their size - I wonder what is going on there?). Shouldn't bigger creatures have bigger weapons or something?

Remember that even in Third Edition, "strength" was not preciusely parallel to carrying capacity and weightlifting. in 3E, a Large character with strength 20 could lift twice what a medium character with strength 20 could. A Huge characters was (I think) x4.

Perhaps 4E continues this trend even further, making the size multiplier even larger. That would allow big monsters to be able to carry as much as they should be able to, without forcing the game to give them such ridiculously high strength scores as to break the math. I'm fine with titans having strength 23, if they can lift 20 times what a strength 23 human can.

 

[Derren]

"Raise a wall of stone with a wave of your hand" is a good start, but apparently verboten because that might be role confusion. *rolls eyes* "Reshape the earth and rack of the battle field at will" is better yet, but again is too controllerish to be dared.

Seconded. (And I don't care if that would be role infringement).

 

[Tewligan]

I'm still miffed that they're holding back Frost Giants for MM2. First of all, they were the stars of G2, one of the first modules published, and second (and more importantly), they go along with Fire Giants as important figures in Norse Myth. And if D&D is about any one thing, that thing is Vikings.

This "Death Giant" sounds like a poser. I want my Viking giants.

Hell, yeah! When I think of giants, I should be hearing Led Zeppelin thundering in my head - the Death Giant is MOST unevocative of "The Immigrant Song", damn it!

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

I'm not really concerned about the lack of oomph in the Archmage epic destiny; we pretty much already knew this from the Tiers article. One utility power from the destiny at 26th level, and that's it for powers. If you want universe-destroying powers, you look at the class powers you pick up at 22nd, 23rd, 25th, 27th, and 29th. And I imagine at-wills fill in the blanks at a few of the other levels.

I'm not really sure where the old Frost and Fire Giants were interesting. Maybe Against the Giants was pretty cool. I wouldn't know on account of having been negative five years old when it was published. All I know is that, looking at 3.5 fire giants, they are about this interesting. These seem to be a step up, if only a small one in the case of the Hill Giant.

 

[Rechan]

Just a question for all of those posters who are complaining about Earth Shock and that the Earth Giants throw rocks: What sort of abilities do you expect Earth Giants to have?

Hill giant:

Savage Haymaker (Standard Encounter Recharge )
Reach 2; +15 vs Fort, 1d10+12, opponent is weaked (save ends)

Hurling Swing (Standard At Will)
Reach 2; +15 vs AC, 1d10+5 and push 3.

For Earth Titans:

Stomp (Standard Encounter)
Reach 3; +20 vs. Reflex, 2d10+12, enemy is stunned, prone and weakened (save ends).

Rain of Stone (Standard Encounter)
Ranged 15 Area Burst 1; 18 vs. Reflex; 2d10+10, enemy is dazed, pushed 2

Pick Up (Standard, At Will)
Reach 3; +20 vs Reflex. Treat as regular grapple. Followup: Squeeze (+20 vs. Fort; 3d10+5) or Hurl (Push 8, 2d10+15)

Rending Bedrock Wave (Standard Encounter Recharge )
Close Blast 5; +20 vs. Reflex, 2d10+3, enemy is knocked prone, pushed 4.

 

[AllisterH]

I wondered how long a hill giant would take to kill another hill giant, taking club average damage, hit probability and so on.

27-28 melee rounds.

Earth Titans can finish each other off slightly more quickly, at 22-23 melee rounds.

I have to say I find the giants damage uninspiring (and their strength seems paltry for their size - I wonder what is going on there?). Shouldn't bigger creatures have bigger weapons or something?

Cheers

Their not meant to fight each other though...

For example, at level 16, a fighter or paladin will have 15x6 + 9 + con score = say 120 hp. His AC I'm guessing will be at 30 (pre-combat, given that Kathra started at 19 and gains +8 from levels and then +3 from magic armour)

Thus, the earth titan on average every round will dish out 17 pts of damage. Should only take 7 rounds of combat for the titan to finish off one PC at that level which means that 2 PCs should be able to kill the titan at least in 5-6 rounds.