Epic Destinies and Earth Giants

[WhatGravitas]

Demispell - surely that is half as good as a real spell, yes? I've never got the idea that the demi prefix is used to mean 'really bad-ass' in D&Dland (demilich, demispell) rather than the 'half as good' as the normal usage would suggest

After some pondering, I came to the conclusion that many problems are solved, if the "demi-" prefix would be replaced by "meta-".

Metalich.
Metahumans.
Metaspell.

While not always spot on (besides the somewhat arbitary use of the prefix), it sounds better, at least IMHO. But I'm Shadowrun-damaged in that way.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

Giants: I don't mind the strength thing as long as one rule from 3rd ed is carried over. The carrying capacities being multiplied as you go up size categories (and down). The bonus on attacks and damage become a matter of how well strength is applied and a sort of force/square inch equation starts to mean that damage doesn't increase as fast as it may seem it should. Plus I see giants a doing slow parryable swings and since velocity has more effect on kinetic energy it all looks fine to me.

Epic Destinies: I wanta play an Archmage!!! So long as epic encounter and dailies kick ass.

 

[Wolfspider]

But if you're going to take endless paragraphs to tell me how awesometacular the Titans are, and how they helped the primordials shape the planes themselves in the beginning of all then they should have some kind of ability that reflects that. "Stomp hard" does not qualify.

Rituals.

 

[Vendark]

Earth giants? That sounds fine.

But if you're going to take endless paragraphs to tell me how awesometacular the Titans are, and how they helped the primordials shape the planes themselves in the beginning of all then they should have some kind of ability that reflects that. "Stomp hard" does not qualify. "Raise a wall of stone with a wave of your hand" is a good start, but apparently verboten because that might be role confusion. *rolls eyes* "Reshape the earth and rack of the battle field at will" is better yet, but again is too controllerish to be dared.

It would be easy to flavor the Earth Titan's rock hurling along these lines. Maybe instead of picking up a rock, he holds out his hand, palm down, and earth flows up to fill it. Or maybe instead of throwing anything, he simply points, and shards of earth lance up to strike his enemies. That would have the added advantage of you not having to make sure there always just happen to be a bunch of giant rocks conveniently strewn about for him to pick up and throw.

 

[lutecius]

They made them more tied to their mythological roots (WIN)

So giants now have serpents for feet or regenerate when they touch the ground like in Greek mythology?
Or are they crafty sorcerers and shapechangers, like in the Norse tradition?
And titans are the well-proportioned ancestors and cousins of the gods?

I understand that they needed a name for their über-giants but these "titans" seem closer to the Disney version than actual mythology.
It's not necessarily a bad thing, the titans in previous editions weren’t very interesting imho, but the new look, them being chaotic evil by default and "only slightly smarter than the dirt [they're] made of" doesn't do it for me either.

I know dnd giants have always had elemental affinities but this "earth titan" is basically a huge earth elemental and even those had more potential in 3e.
And does everything in 4e has to be a walking (or floating) pile of elemental junk? Archons and maybe demons, to differentiate them from devils, I can see, but angels and titans/giants? blah!

 

[Voss]

I'm not really concerned about the lack of oomph in the Archmage epic destiny; we pretty much already knew this from the Tiers article. One utility power from the destiny at 26th level, and that's it for powers. If you want universe-destroying powers, you look at the class powers you pick up at 22nd, 23rd, 25th, 27th, and 29th. And I imagine at-wills fill in the blanks at a few of the other levels.

I'm not really sure where the old Frost and Fire Giants were interesting. Maybe Against the Giants was pretty cool. I wouldn't know on account of having been negative five years old when it was published. All I know is that, looking at 3.5 fire giants, they are about this interesting. These seem to be a step up, if only a small one in the case of the Hill Giant.

Hmm. In both these cases its the feel and flavor rather than the power. The archmage doesn't lack oomph because of his abilities, which are fine. But the powers are what I'd expect to be getting anyway at those levels (and given the one really high level power we've seen, the paladin smite that disrupts all line of effect from the target for a round, I don't expect world destroying). But they don't really have anything to do with being an archmage- you get some neat abilities at high level that allow you to be more of a wizard (in this case) and you get a paper hat that says 'Archmage' on it. The abilities are nice, but you might as well toss the hat in the rubbish bin. It doesn't add anything interesting to the character. If Bob the 30th level wizard who doesn't have the Archmage destiny wants to call himself an Archmage, who is going to tell him no?

Same with the giants. Frost and Fire giants have a history, a theme and a point. A death giant is just a big guy with a bunch of random necromantic abilities that have nothing at all to do with being a giant. He could have been a hill giant with 15 levels of Cleric (of Nerull) and it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. Thats a dull monster. You could make an individual death giant interesting if you really tried, but collectively, they aren't interesting as giants.

 

[Felon]

Same with the giants. Frost and Fire giants have a history, a theme and a point. A death giant is just a big guy with a bunch of random necromantic abilities that have nothing at all to do with being a giant. He could have been a hill giant with 15 levels of Cleric (of Nerull) and it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. Thats a dull monster. You could make an individual death giant interesting if you really tried, but collectively, they aren't interesting as giants.

Lots of unsupported and unsupportable declarations there. Death giants were one of the most interesting critters from the MMIII IMO, with a very distinctive background. Not sure what you think constitutes a "gianty" ability, but there are lots of myths about giants wielding magic, not just bashing things with clubs.

 

[fnwc]

Ranged 8/16?

On the Hill Giant:

Hurl Rock (standard; at-will)
Ranged 8/16; +15 vs. AC; 2d6 + 5 damage.

What exactly does Ranged 8/16 mean? I haven't seen this before...

 

[keterys]

Just for fun, threw together an elite hill giant and solo earth titan.

I do think it'd be worthwhile to have it with some of the extra fodder from the example encounter, but you could still manage that as a 17-19 fight, even with it a solo.

 

[Rechan]

What exactly does Ranged 8/16 mean? I haven't seen this before...

The same as any other ranged attack.

Look at any archer. They have the range, usually 10/20. Anything within the first number has no penalty; anything after gets a -2.