Epic Destinies and Earth Giants

[Rechan]

I'm well aware of how a 4e encounter functions.

I do not find the giants powers at all evocative or interesting. I'd much rather use a different kind of brute or soldier in a combination encounter, with, simply put, cooler and more thematic powers. Or give them different powers that allow them to fulfill their encounter role, but to still look like giants when they do it.

 

[jeffhartsell]

Agree that the hill giant was uninspiring. A cool "pick up and throw foe" recharge ability as a minor action would have been worthy! Also, would have been nice if giants were "scarier", maybe have made them all elites and lesser creatures were their standard and minion mobs.

Even though the hill giant is one of the weakest giants, it still could have had shiny new abilities. Sweep is okay, but that should have a recharge and it should also have a minor attack ability with a recharge.

Charge in and sweep + throw. Set recharge on both to be different numbers and have a gap so that in some rounds it can only basic attack, but some rounds it sweeps and other rounds it throws people around (AND throw foes at other people as a living rock )

I think 4e is headed in the right direction, but the R&D team does need to really treat each mob with lots of TLC. If it is not cool enough to do something special, kick the creature out.

Giants should be freakin' bad mofos, like with a capital M.

 

[jeffhartsell]

I'm well aware of how a 4e encounter functions.

I do not find the giants powers at all evocative or interesting. I'd much rather use a different kind of brute or soldier in a combination encounter, with, simply put, cooler and more thematic powers. Or give them different powers that allow them to fulfill their encounter role, but to still look like giants when they do it.

QFT. That hill giant should be more inspiring and new. "Snatch and throw at enemy" would have been sweet as.

 

[Rechan]

As an example of what I mean, I'll repost my ideas for the giant abilities:

[sblock]Hill giant:

Savage Haymaker (Standard Encounter Recharge )
Reach 2; +15 vs Fort, 1d10+12, opponent is weaked (save ends)

Uprooting Swing (Standard At Will)
Reach 2; +15 vs AC, 1d10+5 and push 3.

For Earth Titans:

Stomp (Standard Encounter)
Reach 3; +20 vs. Reflex, 2d10+12, enemy is stunned, prone and weakened (save ends).

Rain of Stone (Standard Encounter)
Ranged 15 Area Burst 1; 18 vs. Reflex; 2d10+10, enemy is dazed, pushed 2

Pick Up (Standard, At Will)
Reach 3; +20 vs Reflex. Treat as regular grapple. Followup: Squeeze (+20 vs. Fort; 3d10+5) or Hurl (Push 8, 2d10+15)

Rending Bedrock Wave (Standard Encounter Recharge )
Close Blast 5; +20 vs. Reflex, 2d10+3, enemy is knocked prone, pushed 4.[/sblock]

 

[A'koss]

I'm well aware of how a 4e encounter functions.

I do not find the giants powers at all evocative or interesting. I'd much rather use a different kind of brute or soldier in a combination encounter, with, simply put, cooler and more thematic powers. Or give them different powers that allow them to fulfill their encounter role, but to still look like giants when they do it.

Fair enough, but I think they're appropriately slotted as uncomplicated, commonly encountered brute foes. I can foresee a 4e Against the Giants style adventure somewhere down the line and I can see why they might not want the rank-and-file giants to be too tough. And who knows, there may be more flavors of Hill Giant in the MM...

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Simply put the abilities are just boring. Even if it's a 5 man team, that's still 5 guys with 'hit' 'throw rock' 'step on ground really angrily'. Yawn.

And that's why you don't use nothing but Brutes, Soldiers, and Minions either. Unless you want the encounter to be mostly smash in people's heads.

 

[AllisterH]

I think a lot of people are still having trouble getting their heads around the fact that encounters are now designed around larger groups of opponents rather just a single opponent. That when you add up all the abilities of the following...

Level 17 Encounter (XP 7,800)

1 earth titan (level 16 elite brute)
2 hill giants (level 13 brute)
2 war trolls (level 14 soldier)
4 ogre bludgeoneers (level 16 minion)

... you've got plenty of different abilities working their mojo on the battlefield. Judging one non-solo monster is really taking it out the context of the larger encounter they're going to be a part of.

And further, we still don't know how skills might play a roll on the battlefield. There might be some interesting synergy there we don't know about yet.

I'm sorry but I'm with Rechan on this one. I'm fine with the damage based on what I think the AC and HP of an equivalent level PC will be but the the Hill giant didn't make me go "woah, I like what they did".

The orcs, gnolls, hobgoblins, kobolds all have great signature abilities that scream, "This is a X", from the kobold's shifty movement to the pack attack of the gnolls.

The Earth titan and his lesser cousin?Eh, not so much IMO.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

This sorta plays a part with my traps/hazards comment about the Titans. But when it comes to Giants it is sorta good they have just basic style attacks, since I always imagined them to be the kind that normally simply attack straight on, unless they have environmental means that they adapt to.

So things like tearing up trees, shoving rocks down cliff-sides, etc. These aren't really options handled well by powers since their much more situational.

I also have always imagined them to gather things and use that to their advantage. For example this picture of a giant:

[sblock]

[/sblock]

I imagine he would use the anchor wrapped around the tree to do additional harm.

 

[keterys]

Wow. That's a picture.

 

[ruleslawyer]

As an example of what I mean, I'll repost my ideas for the giant abilities:

Those rock! I will definitely pick those up for my 4e games.