Epic Destinies and Earth Giants

[pawsplay]

You know. If a titan is just a 16th level elite brute... What sort of monsters are in the Upper portion of the Paragon level, anyhow?

Typhon. The Hundred-Handed. The Tarasque. Really big elementals. The nobility of the Brass City.

 

[Henry]

While i suspected giants would not have thier 3E damage output, the hill giant's has weaker damage with a melee weapon than a first edition ogre! Reducing the rediculous damage of 3rd editions giants is reasoanable, but this one is just a smidge too low for a 13th level foe.

I know it's nitpicky, but a 1e giant did 1d10 damage, or base weapon +2 for strength (which implied that ogres had an 18 nonpercentile strength, instead of the eponymous 18/00). These guys do more than a 1e Ogre.... but not by much.

However, I do understand why: they want the combats to last 5 or more rounds, not the 2 or 3 that they do under 3e, hence the lower damage. I do love the "Sweep" ability - it's a built in large and in charge, with knockdown. And I find it ironic they do MORE with boulders than with a melee weapon! Before, melee was where a giant wanted to be; now, maybe not?...

 

[Rechan]

Typhon. The Hundred-Handed. The Tarasque. Really big elementals. The nobility of the Brass City.

Pretty sure that the Tarrasque is going to be an Epic thing, not a paragon thing. Also, I'm not really keen on "More elementals. Elements elements ELEMENTS!!!!" Oxygen H20 Plasma and Soil get a little old when they're the only things on the block.

And as someone who's never played 2e, I have little hardon for the City of Brass.

 

[A'koss]

However, I do understand why: they want the combats to last 5 or more rounds, not the 2 or 3 that they do under 3e, hence the lower damage.

I think a lot of people are still having trouble getting their heads around the fact that encounters are now designed around larger groups of opponents rather just a single opponent. That when you add up all the abilities of the following...

Level 17 Encounter (XP 7,800)

1 earth titan (level 16 elite brute)
2 hill giants (level 13 brute)
2 war trolls (level 14 soldier)
4 ogre bludgeoneers (level 16 minion)

... you've got plenty of different abilities working their mojo on the battlefield. Judging one non-solo monster is really taking it out the context of the larger encounter they're going to be a part of.

And further, we still don't know how skills might play a roll on the battlefield. There might be some interesting synergy there we don't know about yet.

 

[Rechan]

Simply put the abilities are just boring. Even if it's a 5 man team, that's still 5 guys with 'hit' 'throw rock' 'step on ground really angrily'. Yawn.

 

[A'koss]

Simply put the abilities are just boring. Even if it's a 5 man team, that's still 5 guys with 'hit' 'throw rock' 'step on ground really angrily'. Yawn.

Who says you have to have a 5 giant encounter if you find it boring?

Why not 2 giants, a rakshasa leader, a frost worg and an acid spitting drake? I'm just pulling these monsters out of a hat, but the point is that with a standard 5 monster enounter (and monsters having a broader range of levels they can threaten) you should have a lot of flexibility in getting what you want out of a fight.

 

[Shroomy]

Who says you have to have a 5 giant encounter if you find it boring?

Why not 2 giants, a rakshasa leader, a frost worg and an acid spitting drake? I'm just pulling these monsters out of a hat, but the point is that with a standard 5 monster enounter (and monsters having a broader range of levels they can threaten) you should have a lot of flexibility in getting what you want out of a fight.

Yeah, I'm fairly confident the designers don't intend to have the PCs fight five monsters of the exact same type and role.

 

[Rechan]

Who says you have to have a 5 giant encounter if you find it boring?

Why not 2 giants, a rakshasa leader, a frost worg and an acid spitting drake? I'm just pulling these monsters out of a hat, but the point is that with a standard 5 monster enounter (and monsters having a broader range of levels they can threaten) you should have a lot of flexibility in getting what you want out of a fight.

Regardless of what I can put a giant with, it's boring at its base. Orcs feel like orcs, hobgoblins feel like hobgoblins, giants feel like nothing.

It's like saying "So WHAT if the ham is bland and flavorless? Just put this mayo on there, and this lettuce, and then you won't be able to taste it!" It's still frickin' bland; I want to taste it in the first place, otherwise I wouldn't put it in there.

They don't add anything interesting to an encounter, therefore I will not use them.

 

[FireLance]

Simply put the abilities are just boring. Even if it's a 5 man team, that's still 5 guys with 'hit' 'throw rock' 'step on ground really angrily'. Yawn.

Suddenly, I had the mental image of five hill giants doing the haka.

 

[A'koss]

REGARDLESS of what I can put a giant with, it's boring at its base. Orcs feel like orcs, hobgoblins feel like goblins, giants feel like nothing.

It's like saying "So WHAT if the ham is bland and flavorless? Just put this mayo on there, and this lettuce, and then you won't be able to taste it!" It's still frickin' bland; I want to taste it in the first place, otherwise I wouldn't put it in there.

Because they don't add anything interesting to an encounter, I'm just not going to use them.

And I look at as pieces of a puzzle, each monster fulfilling a specific role in a larger encounter, rather than judging them as an island of their own (barring the solos of course). After the initial volleys, the Giants will move in to sweep the PCs together so that the Rakshasa and the Drake can maximize their AoE attacks against them, leaving the Wizard isolated for the Worg to maul. If all goes well, next they'll try to...

In some ways it might help to look at as building one 3e monster with 8-10+ powers.