Epic Level Stats

[AuraSeer]

But to me limiting their ability score maximum makes it that more challenging... it makes them truly 'epic' or 'heroic'.

Weakening the characters makes them more heroic? Nifty. Next time I make a fighter PC, I'll give him Str 3, and arm him with a strand of cooked pasta. He'll be the most epic heroic fighter ever!

Seriously though, epic characters are supposed to be larger than life. Above level 20, you're outside the scope of even extraordinary mortal humans, and into the realm of truly legendary or mythic heroes. It's like exchanging a Batman comic for a Greek myth, where Hercules can divert the course of a river all by himself in a single day.

 

[Toj]

Don't get me wrong.... I understand the view that every one else is coming from, and I like those "epic" figures like Gilgamesh, Hercules, Odysseus, etc. But for a less than high fantasy game, I would like to have an option of limiting ability scores maximums and exchanging it for something else.

We have done the other games where you have mortals becoming 'superhuman' and we usually explain them in some fashion, such as they are decendants of gods or blessed by the gods etc. I am just taking a different approach for awhile and seeing where it leads.

So are you guys saying that this really can't be done while maintaining balance and keeping the PC's from dying left and right?

 

[kreynolds]

So are you guys saying that this really can't be done while maintaining balance and keeping the PC's from dying left and right?

No, I'm sure it can be done somehow, but the range of responses you will get will be vastly limited. All of the responses you have received thus far are from posters that are addressing your question from a rules perspective because of where you posted your question. You probably won't get the best help as long as this is in the rules thread.

It would probably be easier to just wait until this thread is moved before trying to push it any further.

 

[Crothian]

Okay, I'd have the max a score can go equal to the max they can roll (after modifiers) +5. So a Dwarf can get up to a (18+2+5) 25 Con, but a Halfling can only get up to a 21 (18-2+5). Then I'd also allow +5 from wishes and similar sources as well as magical items.

 

[Toj]

Okay, I'd have the max a score can go equal to the max they can roll (after modifiers)

Yeah, that's actually how I was going to do it. I was just throwig out 22 as an arbitrary number.

About wishes.... Absolutely!.... if someone has a wish and wants a stat increase they can do it. I have an explanation for it that way.

 

[Victim]

Argueably, limiting stat increases would hurt one trick pony - stat wise - characters. A high level fighter will probably get as much utility out of a Con increase as a STR boost, and if he has armor made out of a funky material, might use a Dex boost or two. However, many spell casters are only going to be interested in increasing their spell casting attribute - in fact, they'll need to focus on it to have a chance against epic saving throws. Sure, they could increase Con, or whatever, but they'd probably die in one attack sequence anyway, so why bother?

However, I don't think I've ever seen anyone make a major point of lifting ability. Why not just say that they have 30 STR, but can't lift more than 22 STR worth because they can't support it properly, get sufficient leverage, whatever. It's not like they couldn't have bags of holding or similar items to carry around tons of stuff.

 

[mikebr99]

What about PrCs that grant stat bonuses (like Dragon Disciple & forsaker etc.)?

What about epic feats that grant stat bonuses?

Seriously... higher stats are the lowest priority problems when ELH stuff is added to characters. You might want to consider not using ELH stuff at all.

 

[Crothian]

What about PrCs that grant stat bonuses (like Dragon Disciple & forsaker etc.)?

What about epic feats that grant stat bonuses?

Simple nix the rfeats, allow the PrCl abilities. Limiting stats is not that big of deal. That it hurts one trick ponies, is only icey on the cake

 

[Oni]

Another thing that you might keep in mind are the ever climbing saves of characters. Spellcasters need every bit of help they can raising their DC's by the time epic levels roll around, especially if they haven't min/maxed along the way. Simply put, in epic levels saves climb faster than DC's and by limiting a caster's ability to raises their stats, and thus their DC's you are making their spellcasting less reliable, and less effective.