Epic Level take two

[gregweller]

In regards to how PCGen would speed up character creation, it took me labout 1/2 hour to come up with this err...rather high level character:

Mu'n'ch'kin, M Human Fighter73 Barbarian11 CR 86; Size:M Type Humanoid; HD (73d10)+(11d12)+912; hp 1338; Init +11 (+7 Dex, +4 Misc); Spd Walk 20'; AC 28 (flatfooted 28, touch 16), *Sword +5 (Great/Vampiric/Vorpal) +101/+96/+91/+86/+81/+76/+71/+66/+61/+56/+51/+46/+41/+36/+31/+26/+21 0'/S (2d6+21 17-20/x2 Both L on hit target must make Fort save DC16 or lose additional 1d4, added to wielder as temporary hit points., severs opponents head on critical hit) or ; SA: Rage 3/day,Damage reduction 1/-,Uncanny Dodge (Dex bonus to AC),Uncanny Dodge (can't be flanked),Uncanny Dodge (+1 against traps),Darkvision 60 Feet, Immune to Sleep, Immune to Paralysis,Immune to Fire, 30 foot Cone of Fire 6d10(19) 1/day; Vision: Normal AL: CE; Sv: Fort +55, Ref +34, Will +27; Str 33, Dex 24, Con 30, Int 14, Wis 11, Cha 14

Skills and Feats: Balance +16, Climb +33, Craft (Weaponsmithing) +37, Heal +12, Hide +20, Jump +32, Listen +17, Move Silently +12, Ride +32, Search +24, Spot +22, Swim +28; Alertness,Ambidexterity,Armor Proficiency (Heavy),Armor Proficiency (Light),Armor Proficiency (Medium),Blind-Fight,Cleave,Close-Quarters Fighting,Combat Reflexes,Death Blow,Dodge,Dragon's Toughness (6x),Dual Strike,Endurance,Expert Tactician,Expertise,Extra Rage,Great Cleave,Improved Critical (Sword (Great), Sword (Bastard/2-H)),Improved Initiative,Improved Two-Weapon Fighting,Improved Unarmed Strike,Instantaneous Rage,Martial Weapon Proficiency,Mobility,Point Blank Shot,Power Attack,Power Critical (Sword (Great)),Power Lunge,Rapid Reload,Shield Proficiency,Simple Weapon Proficiency,Spring Attack,Sunder,Superior Expertise,Two-Weapon Fighting,Weapon Finesse (Unarmed Strike),Weapon Focus (Sword (Great)),Whirlwind Attack
Possessions: 1.0 Amulet of Health +6, 1.0 Bracers of Armor +8, 1.0 Full Plate +5 (Spell Resistance (SR19)/Cold Resistance/Strength +4), 1.0 Ring +5 (Protection), 1.0 Sword +5 (Great/Vampiric/Vorpal),


I'm sure there are some problems--the 1/2 dragon template didn't show up, I think, but would you really want to do this by hand.?

 

[S'mon]

Well, I don't think you should read too much into the character that was posted. For example, I've heard Upper_Krust describe his quasi-epic character, and I don't remember any instant-death abilities.

I'm GM of U_K's deity PC Thrin, I can confirm he has no 'instant kill abilities' other than that the Sword of Thrin is a sword of sharpness (weaker version of a vorpal sword: removes a limb on a natural critical). His only special deity power is defensive: as god of swords (inherited from Kelanen), he is immune to the special powers of swords (vorpalness etc), though not of other weapons - a Scarlet Brotherhood assassin with a vorpal battleaxe caused great consternation!

 

[S'mon]

True, but consider. Which is easier? Chewing through 800+ hp, or tossing one killer spell?

In my deity-level campaign played under 1st ed AD&D rules (with new rules, eg Worship Points as in U-K's soon to be released Immortals Handbook) most deity combat occurs within deity-level anti-magic shells - this certainly makes combat simpler! 1st ed deities had at most 400 hp (399 if not a pantheon head, x2 on home plane) so hurting them wasn't difficult.
Running under 3e I would certainly retain my rule that deity anti-magic can work on other deities.

 

[Dareoon Dalandrove]

Question, Where are you all getting 400 hp from. As far as I know you stop at 20th. Your skills maybe mor formatable and maybe better saves but unless there has been a release that I have not seen hp still stop at 20th.

As far as the making your character into a god thing. If that's what you want then from what I've read ELH is not for you. The book is for people who want to continue to play beyond 20th. I think there is a line that says something to the effect that just because you reached 20th don't go prank calling Loki. You may be a 45 lvl fighter but a god is still a god. i don't care how many hit points of dmg you can deal in a round.

 

[jdfrenzel]

I agree with Dareoon, once you get above 20th level the power increase per level drops.

I'm just looking at the FRCS epic stuff, which lists only 4 epic-level benefits: +1 Effective Class level (class features and skill points only), +1 Ability, +1 Attack, +1 bonus spell level. There will probably be similiar mechanics to increase hit points (didn't I see something about '+10 hit points' as a benefit?), saves, and feats.

But before 20th level a Fighter (for example) gains several of these benefits every level, namely +1 Attack, +1 Class level, better saves and d10 hit points, plus ability increase every 4 and feats every 3 levels. Compared to the epic-level benefits, that's a steep power curve. I don't think a 40th level character will look as bizarre as the unofficial WotC example.

As for complexity, that's happening already, and I too look for electronic aids to rescue us. I'm probably average in having 10 source books (3 core, 5 splatbooks, PsiHB and FRCS), and it's a real hassle remembering which feat or spell came from where. I could hardly play without Excel. I know it's a sore subject, but WotC really needs to address this in MT, because every supplement is less and less wieldy, and therefore valuable, without computer aid.

--- John

 

[Dareoon Dalandrove]

From what I hear (rumors) Mt is going to fall flat on its face. We will all have to rely on indepented products. There are some fantastic ones out there.

 

[Victim]

The Epic system has completely changed from the system in the FRCS. The FR version really screwed single class characters, especially warrior types, and didn't really compare properly to high level monsters.

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

It's not all that great for multi-classed characters either.

 

[Darkness]

Question, Where are you all getting 400 hp from. As far as I know you stop at 20th.

I believe that you don't stop getting hp at 20th level.

... once you get above 20th level the power increase per level drops.

I'm just looking at the FRCS epic stuff ...

The FRCS stuff is not representative of the ELH rules.

 

[Dareoon Dalandrove]

Hit points

where are you getting this information? Have you read something or is it just speculation?