Epic Players/DMs: Do you use epic spellcasting?

[iwatt]

I've essentially found the same thing. Really powerful spell designs tend to have unattainable DC's. I realize there are probably ways around that problem, but it sure seems like they would involve some pretty creative contortions (that would be fairly obvious to spot).

Typical method: Boost your casting stat to a higher level with one spell. Then use it to gain a skill modifier. Then use your now uber spellcraft to cast the Uber Spell. Sep's story Hour has some evry good examples of this. Mostin typically raise his Int to the High 50's before he starts casting world devastating magic.*


* He accomplishes this by getting a Druid to heal him after each spell, and using hitpoint sacrifice.

 

[lkj]

Typical method: Boost your casting stat to a higher level with one spell. Then use it to gain a skill modifier. Then use your now uber spellcraft to cast the Uber Spell. Sep's story Hour has some evry good examples of this. Mostin typically raise his Int to the High 50's before he starts casting world devastating magic.*


* He accomplishes this by getting a Druid to heal him after each spell, and using hitpoint sacrifice.

Heh. Amusing. Well, I haven't looked at how hard it is to design spells that raise ability scores to crazy levels. I'll have to check that out. If it's as easy as is implied by your post, then I suppose epic spells that provide stat bonuses beyond a certain level will be akin to researching cold fusion . . . Lots of promise. No verifiable results (so far).

Actually, that sort of introduces a nifty plot. Evil mad wizard trying to attain ultimate power sort of thing.

Thanks for the insight.

AD

 

[kigmatzomat]

I'm not sure what it takes to develop the two epic support spells as well as the nuke but it seems like it would be painful, both in XP and spell development time. It also turns it into a ritual (epic buff, heal, epic buff, heal, epic nuke) with opportunities for badness.

If my players did this I wouldn't consider it game breaking. It requires lots of effort in advance, prep-time, and risk. A much higher level caster just waives his arms and stuff 'splodes. This is a multistep blast. I can deal with that.

 

[iwatt]

I'm not sure what it takes to develop the two epic support spells as well as the nuke but it seems like it would be painful, both in XP and spell development time. It also turns it into a ritual (epic buff, heal, epic buff, heal, epic nuke) with opportunities for badness.

If my players did this I wouldn't consider it game breaking. It requires lots of effort in advance, prep-time, and risk. A much higher level caster just waives his arms and stuff 'splodes. This is a multistep blast. I can deal with that.

Oh, I agree. I'm not much of an expert on this, but I distinctly remember Sephulcrave mentioning this is how it worked. The first time it was used it involved 3 epic wizards and an epic druid. It made for gerat story writing as well.

Still, It another potential mechanism that can be exploited in the system.

I never really liked that epic spellcasting was so dependant on Spellcraft. It does mechanically favor Wizards over the other 3 core casters. A caster Level check would have been more appropriate.

 

[ruleslawyer]

The nukes are not the problem. The problem is the buffs. In many ways, it's an additional problem of the system that it works insufficiently well for nuking, and far too well for buffing.

Epic Intelligence
Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 90
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Personal
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 40 hours
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The caster gains a +50 bonus to Intelligence.

Backlash: The caster suffers 7d6 backlash damage.

I can reasonably hit that DC at 25th level with full Spellcraft (+28), a skill-boost item (+30), a decent Intelligence (+12), and Epic Skill Focus: Spellcraft (+10). All I have to do is cast that every day or so, and my spell save DCs increase by +20 or so, assuming I have a headband of intellect +10 lying around. It gets more ridiculous if I use the Intelligence granted by this spell to cast even more powerful epic spells, since my Spellcraft bonus increases by +25 or so when I cast it.

 

[lkj]

The nukes are not the problem. The problem is the buffs. In many ways, it's an additional problem of the system that it works insufficiently well for nuking, and far too well for buffing.

Epic Intelligence
Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 90
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Personal
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 40 hours
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The caster gains a +50 bonus to Intelligence.

Backlash: The caster suffers 7d6 backlash damage.

I can reasonably hit that DC at 25th level with full Spellcraft (+28), a skill-boost item (+30), a decent Intelligence (+12), and Epic Skill Focus: Spellcraft (+10). All I have to do is cast that every day or so, and my spell save DCs increase by +20 or so, assuming I have a headband of intellect +10 lying around. It gets more ridiculous if I use the Intelligence granted by this spell to cast even more powerful epic spells, since my Spellcraft bonus increases by +25 or so when I cast it.

So, what's a skill-boost item that boosts Spellcraft by +30 and what does such a thing cost? (I'm sure they exist or are craftable. It' just that my 'skill boost fu' is weak)

Thanks,
AD

 

[ruleslawyer]

So, what's a skill-boost item that boosts Spellcraft by +30 and what does such a thing cost? (I'm sure they exist or are craftable. It' just that my 'skill boost fu' is weak)

Thanks,
AD

Items that grant a competence bonus to skills cost (skill bonus squared) x100, according to the DMG. The epic magic items section in the ELH makes a mistake by saying that items that grant an enhancement bonus to skills greater than +30 are epic; it should probably say competence instead. In any event, +30 is the reasonable maximum for non-epic, which means that a +30 skill bonus (Spellcraft) item costs 90,000 gp; pocket change for an epic-level PC.

Note that you could just lose the item and the backlash damage and grant yourself a +30 bonus to Intelligence; that's bad enough. Without the item, however, you won't even be able to cast wimpy spells like animus blizzard and hellball.

This is my point; epic spells are too good for buffing and long-term effects and too crappy for combat magic. Moreover, there are too many holes in the system. I don't mind having to use adjudication, but I just don't see the point in saving a system that's so problematic.

 

[JustaPlayer]

Anyone looking for some tierd spells like 1-9 should look into EverQuest RPG published by S&S. Thier system went 1-15 so that is 6 more levels of spell casting fun. The 9th and below levels look pretty comparable to D&D so I would have to say that 10-15 level spells won't be game breaking. It looks like it at first, until you note that someone has to be level 28 or so to be able to do 20d6x10 damage and only have so many spell slots of that level.

 

[Sledge]

long duration epic spells should never have backlash: " For spells with durations longer than instantaneous, the backlash damage is per round."

 

[Psion]

Anyone looking for some tierd spells like 1-9 should look into EverQuest RPG published by S&S.

I or II? Or does it matter?

I sort of avoided Everquest like the plague...