Epic Skills Problem

[Marshall]

Is it really that hard to make a Spot DC 80 and ignore all illusions when you have Glasses of Vision +100? for a piddly 200Kgp?

So it takes a Spellcraft DC of 170 to cast that uber epic spell, I can make that easy with my Arcane Focus +100!

Anybody else notice that its way to easy to get mega skill checks and it was probably a mistake to base so many epic powers on them?

So, When does a skill bonus item become "Epic"? +20?, +30?, +70?

 

[Buddha the DM]

+31

see page 123 of the Epic Level Handbook

 

[Marshall]

Why do I always miss the last line in a column?

But it still, would be well worth it for most classes to spend the 2Mgp to get a +100 in at least one skill, and even the 18Kgp +30 brings alot of those DCs down to levels I'm not sure the designers considered.

 

[Numion]

Is it really that hard to make a Spot DC 80 and ignore all illusions when you have Glasses of Vision +100? for a piddly 200Kgp?

So it takes a Spellcraft DC of 170 to cast that uber epic spell, I can make that easy with my Arcane Focus +100!

Anybody else notice that its way to easy to get mega skill checks and it was probably a mistake to base so many epic powers on them?

So, When does a skill bonus item become "Epic"? +20?, +30?, +70?

If that's the case, it indeed is quite wacky. I've liked all the other bits about the book, but oh well, I know when to rule 0.

 

[Zor]

I think +skills items are too cheap in general. For a dirt cheap cost, they trivialize any other bonuses you can get to the skill. The house rule that my group uses works very well: Change the formula for +skill items to be bonus cubed x 20 gp. Using that formula gives:

+5 skill = 2500 gp
+10 skill = 20,000 gp
+20 skill = 160,000 gp
+30 skill = 540,000 gp

+100 skill = 200,000,000 gp. You gotta be REALLY epic before you can afford this now!

-Zor

 

[LordAO]

To be honest, I think that any item that gives bonuses to a skill (except maybe for +5 or so) is ridiculously cheap and unbalancing. It allows someone to get, for a pathetic price, the equivalent of what a character normally has to work very hard for. Why bother getting a feat that gives you a +2 to a skill when you can get items that can give you +100? It just cheapens the entire experience. As a Sorcerer I'd be pretty mad if someone could buy an item that gives them a caster level of 20. Why should people be able to get skills then from items? It just isn't right.

 

[drnuncheon]

Why should people be able to get skills then from items? It just isn't right.

I see your point, although I must confess that in some cases it makes a lot of sense. The classic cloak of elvenkind, right out of Lord of the Rings, really shouldn't be anything other than a bonus to Hide. Goggles of minute seeing seem perfectly reasonable to me - someone able to get a magnified view of an object ought to get some kind of bonus to their Spot checks regarding it. There are many other examples.

What bothers me is that the items I mention above are effects that happen to have a skill bonus as the game mechanics for that effect. The 'amulet of spellcraft +100' is a stat boost without a raison d'etre other than 'to pump up my bonus'. As a DM, I consider that bland, boring, and dull.

J

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I think the rules just were not written with big skill boosters easily available. They just fall apart.

A very high level skill can be just as good or better than a powerful feat. You can already see that in the PHB. Epic levels skills can be equivalent to epic level feats.

The DM should be hesitant to hand out +100 items for 200k, exactly in the way he should be hesitant to hand out a feat item for 200k. Why earn feats or skills if you just buy them?

My general POV is same here as in the "Can I wish for a feat?" threads: Be careful about handing out character defining abilities like candy; they should be earned. Giving out a feat in an item or wish can be okay. It can also be a disaster. Giving out a big skill bonus in an item can be okay. It can also be a disaster.

 

[Greatwyrm]

I think people really overlook all the ways to break/neutralize other people's toys in 3e. Mord's Disjunction, sundering, Dispel Magic, Anti-Magic Field.

Yea, I made my 9th level druid a circlet of +10 to Concentration. It can still be broken, stolen, or suppressed. It also doesn't work when I'm Wildshaped (and yes, it does matter, I also took the cast while Wildshaped feat).

People on another thread are complaining about how much fighters and rogues depend on equipment at higher levels. All of those complaints apply equally to any +bazillion item for skills too.

Also, look at the opportunity costs. What are you not making by sinking xp and gp into those items. For that kind of price tag, you're probably giving up items that have bonus spells per day, staves, powerful weapons, etc.

 

[kreynolds]

The DM should be hesitant to hand out +100 items for 200k, exactly in the way he should be hesitant to hand out a feat item for 200k.

Of course a DM should be hesitant. You know why? Because a +100 item wouldn't be 200K. It would be 2M. Know wonder you have a problem with big booster prices.