Epic Spells....huhwhat????

[Roland Delacroix]

Well, I was one of the few who got it online for like $5 so no big loss I have yet to use it but i'm working on getting a 15th level game together, play Banewarrens then go Epic. I'm also pretty unhappy with the spellsystem, as well as the boring PrC's. It's almost always better to just take a new PrC or base class than one of the epic ones. I'll post again after some playtesting though. I do like some of the epic level metamagic feats though.

 

[kreynolds]

I'm also pretty unhappy with the spellsystem, as well as the boring PrC's. It's almost always better to just take a new PrC or base class than one of the epic ones.

You didn't like the Epic Infiltrator? The roleplay opportunities with that puppy are staggering. But, in the end, the absolute best class combo would be this...one class...all the way.

 

[Privateer]

I know this is crap, but it's just something that made me chuckle (it's a joke)...

DEVASTATION FIREBALL II BREAKDOWN
The following is a breakdown of the devastation fireball II spell.
The target spell will have a casting time of 1 action, deal 5,000d6 points of fire damage in a 100-foot radius, allow a Reflex save for half damage, and have a range of 1,200 feet. It will also require 480 casters, each devoting one unused 9th-level spell slot, in a ritual casting.

Here's the funny bit -- a low level monk or rogue, on a natural twenty, would take no damage because of Evasion. Imagine the DM looking for a flavorful description of that.

"Well... um... despite all things within two hundred feet of you being completely vaporized by the intense heat of a hundred thousand burning suns, you, um... don't get hurt. Um. Shoot me now."

 

[drnuncheon]

"Well... um... despite all things within two hundred feet of you being completely vaporized by the intense heat of a hundred thousand burning suns, you, um... don't get hurt. Um. Shoot me now."

Well, duh - they jump. Everyone knows that if you jump when there's an explosion, it won't hurt you. Just watch any action movie.

J

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Well, duh - they jump. Everyone knows that if you jump when there's an explosion, it won't hurt you. Just watch any action movie.

J

That's actually true. I haven't seen anyone dying when he jumped at an explosion.

 

[Endur]

I think the point about the epic spells is that they are supposed to be "Epic Spells", not run of the mill D&D spells with a few more d6 of damage.

Sauron did not create the "One Ring" in a single action. He spent years constructing it in secret.

The most powerful spells in fantasy literature are either 1) signature spells known only to a single caster (or a single tradition of casters handing down the spell from caster to caster) or 2) ritual spells that involve multiple casters over a long period of time or 3) the great curses, which destroy the caster as well as the recipiant.

The Rain of Colorless Fire and the Invoked Devestation from Greyhawk are good examples of spells with multiple casters and backlash damage. The casters expected to die, but they planned for their enemies to die too.

"Moon Spiral Heart Attack" is a great spell when your caster is down to single digit hit points. You know you are going to die anyways, may as well take your enemy with you. Particularly if you have a contingent Raise Dead ready to bring you back to life after you die.

I wouldn't expect an epic spellcaster to know more than one or two epic spells. For instance, the epic evil spellcaster NPC in a campaign I'm running knows only one epic spell. And that spell has more of her wealth tied up in it than any magic item she owns. And there's all sorts of mitigating factors, but if she ever casts that spell, watch out.

 

[WizarDru]

Well, if you don't expect them to know more than one spell, that only reinforces the kind of spell they're likely to research and use. A character with a 50 spellcraft can cast 5 epic spells a day.

That means he's other going to cast several times and FAIL, so he needs the slots to cast over and over again, or he's casting them continually. Neither one really models the items in question. The twin cataclysms of Greyhawk were aided by divine influence and the powerful magic artifacts known as binders. The counterstrike was suicidal, the original attack was not. The counterstrike certainly didn't have a week or two to research their new massive spell.

As it is, under the current system, no one would have the time, gold, experience and effort to devote to performing such a spell. Most mages will probably go straight for Epic Mage Armor, and stop right there. Many of the Epic spells don't really feel epic to me, I suppose, and therein lies the problem.

 

[Olive]

The spells that Sep uses in his story hour always seem pretty sool and interesting to me. Then again, it's a story hour and sep writes well. Also check out his rogues gallery thread as it details some of his epic spells.

 

[kreynolds]

Howdy All,

A buddy of mine pointed out that I (probably) needlessly included +2 for changing the area to a 20-foot radius, when the Energy seed should (in his opinion) already included that function. I'm inclined to agree with him, so that would bring the DC down just a bit.

 

[Endur]

One other suggestion for how to handle epic spells from a GM's perspective.

I would not let the Players decide on the spell mechanics.

Instead, I would treat the spells as if I was running a 1e/2e game and the spellcaster wanted to create a new, unknown so far, spell.

The player of the spellcaster would tell the GM what spell effect he wants: i.e. nuke the moon, etc.

The player's character would then research other similar spells that have been used in history: possibly talking to other spellcasters, visiting sages, legendary libraries, possibly planar questing.

Then, after the character invests a certain amount of research and time, I would come up with a formula based on the criteria in the epic Handbook for the player's spell. At that point the player would then spend the gold and exp to develop the spell. (Probably apply the cost of the earlier research against the cost to develop the spell).

The idea is that an epic spell should be as significant an investment as any magic item the character possesses. Imagine a quest for a Paladin's Holy Sword. Well, finding/creating an epic spell should be of similar "epic" scope.

Tom