Epic Spells....huhwhat????

[kreynolds]

OK. I _must_ be doing something wrong here. Check this out.

The target spell will have a casting time of 1 action, deal 10d6 points of fire damage in a 20-foot radius, allow a Reflex save for half damage, and have a range close to 800 feet. These would be the statistics of a normal 3rd-level fireball spell cast by a non-epic 10th-level caster.

[color=white]Seed: Energy				+19
Spell Factors:
1-action casting time			+20
Increase range by 100% (x2=900 feet)	+4
Change area to 20-foot radius		+2
Spellcraft DC Total			45
Cost to Develop		405,000 GP + 16,200 XP[/color]

EDIT: Almost forgot. This isn't even a spread effect, just a burst.

Either I'm doing something wrong (and I hope I am, and if I am, please let me know), or I've never realized just how crappy this system is.

Also, its been a while since I've looked at epic spell rules, so...are the saves calculated the same? Is it DC 10 + spell level (10) + caster modifier? I can't remember and I haven't had a chance to look it up.

 

[Otterscrubber]

Epic spells are just weird, I dont look forward to using them.

 

[kreynolds]

Boy, you ain't just whistlin' Dixie!

 

[Camarath]

Looks right to me. I never liked the system much. One of the only things it is good for is permanent Buffs using lots of mitigating factors. The book says that the DC for an epic spell's saving throw is 20 + key ability modifier.

 

[drnuncheon]

To be fair, there are a number of differences between your epic spell and a real 3rd level fireball:

• +7 save DC
• Has a chance of working in an antimagic field.
• Blows right through globe of invulnerability and similar effects.

But yeah, the epic spell system sucks for straight damage. (Then again, a fireball is hardly epic, is it?) It's a lot better for huge effects - like, say, a volley of fireballs that covers an entire city - that you just can't get with the regular system.

J

 

[Kerrick]

Boy, you ain't just whistlin' Dixie!

rofl! You took the words right out of my mouth. We took one look at that system and threw the book across the room. It sucks, to be blunt. To be fair, it was a decent idea, and it has some potentia (if it's heavily reworked), but the execution left a lot to be desired. But then, its pretty much representative of the rest of the book - remember, kids, they never playtested anything much above 10th level when they made 3E.

 

[kreynolds]

The book says that the DC for an epic spell's saving throw is 20 + key ability modifier.

Yeah, I just found it while pouring over it at Starbucks. Funny thing about Starbucks...every time I buy a mocha from them I feel like I'm funding some kind of super-secret Neo-Nazi group. I tell ya', a place that sells frickin' coffee for four bucks a cup...damn...you _know_ they're up to no good!

 

[kreynolds]

To be fair, there are a number of differences between your epic spell and a real 3rd level fireball:

• +7 save DC
• Has a chance of working in an antimagic field.
• Blows right through globe of invulnerability and similar effects.

Very true, but the point remains that its just a rediculous amount of resources required to develop that spell. Actually, about that...they just used magic item pricing formulas (ignoring the x10 multiplier for being epic)...effectively, anyway. Check this out...

Fireball heightened to 10th level: 10 (spell level) x 21 (caster level) x 2,000 gp = 420,000 gp.

Freaky, no?

But yeah, the epic spell system sucks for straight damage.

As far as I can tell, it sucks all the way around, but only in regards to the resources required to develop them.

(Then again, a fireball is hardly epic, is it?)

I wouldn't say it's "epic", no, but that's hardly the point. The point is that the system is horrid, as it's requires the expendature of so many resources for such a simple spell that can just about be accomplished with a 10th-level spell slot and Heighten Spell.

It's a lot better for huge effects - like, say, a volley of fireballs that covers an entire city - that you just can't get with the regular system.

True, but still far too costly, IMO.

 

[kreynolds]

We took one look at that system and threw the book across the room.

I damn near did too, but remembered at the last second that I liked the rest of the book...mostly.

 

[WizarDru]

Yeah, I'm staring this in the face right now, and trying to figure out how to handle it. Epic Spells are so expensive, in terms of gold and xp, that they're virtually impossible to develop. Epic spells appear to only really be an option when you've spent several epic levels working on them, such that a 26th level character might have one.

Feh.

Never mind that Epic Spells, by and large, don't scale. So a better comparison would be to a 20th level caster's fireball. Perhaps heightened to 5th and then maximized and empowered?


The Epic spell system just doesn't seem very...well, Epic.