Epic Spells....huhwhat????
- Thread starter kreynolds
- Start date
The Souljourner
First Post
kreynolds said:
What 32nd level Wizard *isn't* going to have a 36,000gp item to give him +6 con? That alone is +96 hitpoints, which makes the average 294, enough to survive even above average damage. And that's not even taking into consideration the mere 110,000gp he could spend to get a +4 inherent bonus to con. Now he has 358 hitpoints, which is almost enough to survive max damage from 64d6.
And we haven't even delved into the art of making an epic spell to increase your con.... make it take an hour to cast, make it last a week, get a couple friends to add an epic spell slot, and you can get like +16 con just from that.
That's where epic spells *really* stand out - self buffing spells with fairly hefty casting requirements but that stay around for a long time... or even ones that are permanent. Unfortunately, an epic spell that gives you +16 con isn't very interesting.
-The Souljourner
Skinwalker
First Post
Add my 100% as well, Souljourner. 
After reading the examples in which the caster pays XP and *HP* for every casting of the spell he created, I decided my Epic Level Handbook would serve me just as well if that chapter fell out.
Here are the things I pictured happening to me...
Bad scenario #1: Gee, I used more XP on killing that one creature than I earned for the whole session. Glad I spent all that money and XP developing that uber-spell in the first place, instead of crafting items that would let me kill things and *gain* XP.
Bad scenario #2: My uber-spell failed to stop the charging monster that I spent half my HP casting. I sure hope it will be gentle!
After reading the examples in which the caster pays XP and *HP* for every casting of the spell he created, I decided my Epic Level Handbook would serve me just as well if that chapter fell out. Here are the things I pictured happening to me...
Bad scenario #1: Gee, I used more XP on killing that one creature than I earned for the whole session. Glad I spent all that money and XP developing that uber-spell in the first place, instead of crafting items that would let me kill things and *gain* XP.
Bad scenario #2: My uber-spell failed to stop the charging monster that I spent half my HP casting. I sure hope it will be gentle!
HEL Pit Fiend
First Post
Epic Spells are just fine
I recommend tinkering around with the seeds and combining some of them. The most devastating and powerful epic spells were developed last year by myself and a fellow player in our group that cost NO personal xp and backlash damage for casting them. The average DCs were around 65 to 75, which is easily attainable for most 24th level wizards. And no magic item or heigtened, maximized, empowered, 16th level spell could compare, and they were worth every single gp of the 550,000 gps cost.
I recommend tinkering around with the seeds and combining some of them. The most devastating and powerful epic spells were developed last year by myself and a fellow player in our group that cost NO personal xp and backlash damage for casting them. The average DCs were around 65 to 75, which is easily attainable for most 24th level wizards. And no magic item or heigtened, maximized, empowered, 16th level spell could compare, and they were worth every single gp of the 550,000 gps cost.
Thresher
First Post
kreynolds said:
Get a craft knife, cut it out of the book and hope the pc's dont notice the missing pages?
I tried for months to come up with stuff that would be useful and not destroy the spirit of the game, for both my character and the GM and I just couldnt.
Out of all the things that are really borked in that book the EL spells just stank something horrid, at least now that the ELH will be part of the SRD someone in the future may be able to make a system that dosnt just suck arse.
/pleads to indi-writers and game companies...
Dark Dragon
Explorer
kreynolds said:
LOL! Seems to be some sort of Manhattan Project for D&D "nuke" developement. Hm, I wonder if there would be an upgrade / erratum / whatsoever for epic spells. The recent version is more or less crap, IMO.
re
I must agree, the spell system in the ELH is almost unuseable. The ELH is one of the biggest reasons I am wary about Andy Collins doing the Revised PHB.
The ELH had some great material such as monsters and the base spell seed idea. The overall book was kind of boring and lacking in quite a few areas such as epic advancement and prestige classes. There were a few parts that were very poorly done. The overall epic spell system was poorly done making it ridiculously difficult and expensive to create a spell. The majority of epic spells were boring and nigh on unuseable in the course of a regular D&D epic adventure.
If the PHB is good, I hope Collins gets a chance to redo the ELH. It really needs to be cleaned up. I wouldn't be surprised if Collins felt the same way. It was fairly obvious the ELH didn't receive alot of playtesting and he would have more feedback to work with during a redesign and upgrade.
I must agree, the spell system in the ELH is almost unuseable. The ELH is one of the biggest reasons I am wary about Andy Collins doing the Revised PHB.
The ELH had some great material such as monsters and the base spell seed idea. The overall book was kind of boring and lacking in quite a few areas such as epic advancement and prestige classes. There were a few parts that were very poorly done. The overall epic spell system was poorly done making it ridiculously difficult and expensive to create a spell. The majority of epic spells were boring and nigh on unuseable in the course of a regular D&D epic adventure.
If the PHB is good, I hope Collins gets a chance to redo the ELH. It really needs to be cleaned up. I wouldn't be surprised if Collins felt the same way. It was fairly obvious the ELH didn't receive alot of playtesting and he would have more feedback to work with during a redesign and upgrade.
Kerrick
First Post
OMG.. I was falling out of my chair reading those spells. While I agree that they were good in theory, the execution was sorely lacking. The devastation fireball II spell made me laugh for a good five minutes - what a way to start the day 
But seriously - that system is baaad. I do think, however, that you should have to spend more than the average amount of money to research an epic spell. I'm talking six digits here, not 7-8 - any epic character worth the name probably has a few hundred grand (at least) stashed away on various planes of existence.
I agree with HPF - you can easily create low-DC spells that blast creatures without burning up a ton of XP or costing you hit points. I think the really big, "wipe out the city and leave a scarred crater" spells should cost a buttload of XP and hit point backlash, though - they're EPIC spells for a reason, and shouldn't be cast lightly.
I might be able to help you out on that count. I can't PM you, so I'll have to append this message here for you. E-mail me, and I can send you an alternate spell system that I've been working on. I'm not worried about posting this in a public forum; once the mechanics of the system have been properly playtested, they'll be going up on our site as a free download (the spells themselves, however, will be in a book).
But seriously - that system is baaad. I do think, however, that you should have to spend more than the average amount of money to research an epic spell. I'm talking six digits here, not 7-8 - any epic character worth the name probably has a few hundred grand (at least) stashed away on various planes of existence.
I agree with HPF - you can easily create low-DC spells that blast creatures without burning up a ton of XP or costing you hit points. I think the really big, "wipe out the city and leave a scarred crater" spells should cost a buttload of XP and hit point backlash, though - they're EPIC spells for a reason, and shouldn't be cast lightly.
I might be able to help you out on that count. I can't PM you, so I'll have to append this message here for you. E-mail me, and I can send you an alternate spell system that I've been working on. I'm not worried about posting this in a public forum; once the mechanics of the system have been properly playtested, they'll be going up on our site as a free download (the spells themselves, however, will be in a book).
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kreynolds
First Post
Kerrick said:
Strangely enough, I'm thinking of tossing out the XP expendature entirely, and only requiring gold equal to DC x 1,000. But, I'm also thinking of just using a completely different system, reverse engineering what they have, basing it off of metamagic, making it a little more freeform than metamagic, more options, uses 10th+level spell slots, casting having nothing at all to do with Spellcraft checks, etc, etc...
Should be lots of fun. Time to call out the group!
