Epic Spells

[Sepulchrave II]

edit: babau demons have a Pd of 10. Fire giants are 11, unfortunately, unless we amend the formula (4 + 0.6 x KR).

I'm wondering if we should stick to the WotC CRs from the Monster Manual (only). They're much better established than the epic ones; furthermore, people know the epic CRs are wonky and so will be expecting an alternative.

Development

Did you forget the permanent factor? How come the reduced duration?

 

[Cheiromancer]

Lore of Circe [Epic]
Prerequisites: Brew Potion, Spellcraft 24 ranks, Knowledge Nature 13 ranks, access to [polymorph]
Benefit: You may pay +20 SP to affect unwilling creatures with spells based on the [polymorph] seed. These spells are permanent and dismissible. You may also apply the pernicious factor at a reduced cost of only +10 SP. Finally, your [polymorph] spells gain a +5 bonus to the Save DC and caster level when cast against someone who, in the hour prior to casting, ate food you helped prepare. Targets are allowed a Fortitude save to negate the effect of a [polymorph] spell.

The 30 SP from this feat are prepaid- part of pernicious and all of permanent. A +20 factor for permanent is based on a base duration of rounds, right?


edit: WotC CRs would be fine... but I'll have to enter them into my spreadsheet. The babau army would be slightly cheaper then, wouldn't it?

edit: OK. I misapplied Lore of Circe. I forgot to pay the +20 SP upfront cost.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Oooh.

I'm kind of concerned about this. Maybe Lore of Circe shouldn't apply - what if it were restricted to offensive polymorphs only?

 

[Cheiromancer]

If we make the CR used in [polymorph] be the group CR, then the problem disappears. At least for the polymorph spells.

There might still be problems with [augment] though, particularly mass augments. If 20 targets is +6, the "unlimited" factor might also be too cheap at +10. Maybe it should be an exponential factor: +6 is 20 targets, +7 is 30, +8 is 40, +9 is 60, and +10 is 80. And so on, in a staggered doubles progression; +4 quadruples the number, and +20 multiplies by 1000. You can still get lots of targets quite cheaply, but an effect that affects 20,000 targets will be a little more challenging. Well, more challenging that +10 makes it anyway.

Generally, though, I think that if you have two 30 SP feats contributing to one spell, there's going to be trouble. Designing the feats so that they name the seeds they assist will help us foresee any potential problems, but care will be required. Particularly if we have overlapping feats.

I'd hate to rule out having overlapping feats; that would mean no more feats than there are seeds! The presupposition of feats is that there is an inexhaustible number of them. Funny that- there is a finite list of skills.

Anyway, that's my idea with Lore of Circe and Arcane Accoutrement; tie the CR of [polymorph] to the group CR rather than the CR of the individual target monsters. If we do that, then paying extra for mass effects is kind of redundant, though. Maybe [polymorph] should default to any number of targets, subject to the constraint of group CR?

Spells like [augment] that are based on one target could have a more elaborate factor for multiplicities. Perhaps the staggered doubles progression mentioned above, or perhaps something else.

[edit] Using WotC CR might be problematic for thinks like balors and solars. Perhaps we can have a short list of monsters whose official CR is problematic. Fire giants won't be on the list (the difference between 10 and 11 is trivial) but pit fiends maybe should be.

[edit2]I'm gonna withdraw my proposal about group CR and different mass effect factors. The problem with Abyssal Army was based on my forgetting how Lore of Circe worked. Embarassing, since I wrote it!

A Mass Polymorph feat probably needs to be written, but one that is less math intensive than Arcane Accoutrement is. In fact, Arcane Accoutrement shouldn't have the "change base values" provision. If it changed a touch [augment] or [fortify] to "any number of willing targets in a 100-ft. radius spread centered on you" then that would be about the right level of power. That's about 1000 5-ft. squares, I think; it can be further widened, if desired.

I dunno about the non-epic bonuses in the augment seed, either. They seem to be a bit of a headache.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Grendel's Company
Transmutation (Polymorph)

Spellcraft: 31 ranks
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 60 ft.
Targets: Any number of willing corporeal creatures within a 60 ft. radius burst
Duration: 200 minutes (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: None

Development
50 days, 50,000 gp, 2000 xp
Seeds: [Polymorph]

Factors: Dismissible (+2), add mass effect (+14), add unlimited targets (+4), 2 x Widen (+6)
Mitigating Factors: Reduced range (-4), Reduced CR (-15)

Description
Select any number of willing, corporeal creatures within 60 ft. of you (about 360 medium-sized creatures); they immediately turn into trolls. The effect lasts 200 minutes, but as a standard action you can release one or more of the subjects. You may include yourself among those transformed.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Grendel's Company

Excellent. That's more like it. 28th level to cast. At 43rd level, the same spell can turn them all into pit fiends, which is kind of worrying. Or not - assuming we don't use WotC CRs. Best we don't for high-end outsiders.

I'm thinking that [polymorph] isn't going to need too much help from feats that make it more dangerous than it already is. We'll need to be careful.

I'm wondering if we should price 'unlimited targets' higher.

 

[Cheiromancer]

How much higher? One or two points is doable, but it won't change a broken spell into a balanced one. A scaling effect (+10 for 80, +14 for 320, etc.) won't curb Errtu's Company, and would only delay the development of Errtu's Legions by a few levels; there's all kind of room for mitigation.

Still, going from +6 for 20 targets to +12 for unlimited has a nice symmetry. Want to make Grendel's Company 30th level to cast?

The Pd rating for a balor is 23. 49th level would be high enough to develop a version that turns a group into balors rather than trolls- 51st if you move Unlimited Targets up to +6. I dunno if that's too soon. I suspect that by then someone else will come along with a [weather]-[compel] aggregate and take away that army of balors, and then what will the caster do?

I'm thinking that [polymorph] isn't going to need too much help from feats that make it more dangerous than it already is. We'll need to be careful.

To tell you the truth, I was kinda looking for trouble when I composed these feats. I wanted to see what happens if two 30-point feats work with one seed; are the results unacceptable? And I also wanted to see if the Mass Effect Factors are broken; trying to exploit mass effect spells seemed to be the way to do it.

The jury's not quite in. Jake desperately needs as many Epic Spellcasting feats as he can to keep pace with Matt. One epic spell per day is great, but what do you do with the second encounter? Taking feats like Circe's Lore isn't going to help you much in the Dungeon of Doom. And there are all sorts of places where you just can't take your army of trolls; having a feat that helps you easily make armies of trolls is thus somewhat dubious. So, despite the cool things that they do, I don't know if Jake would actually take these feats.

And yeah, the high SP spells are crazy powerful. But that's why you'd want to play a 50th level character, right?

I'm sure it will become clearer with time.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Something I've been forgetting; is Spell Focus a mitigating factor in developing spells? We had it at -2, right? I'm going to have to remember that if I design a spell that presupposes a feat with a Spell Focus prerequisite; the spell will be cheaper.

Unless we think this is not worth paying attention to. It's one of those nice little touches that might be more trouble tracking than it is worth.

And why do we base spell cost and development on USP? Why not just use SP instead? I bet we had a good reason, but it slips my mind at the moment. I'm thinking that it will make spell development more difficult for users of the system, and certainly more difficult for designers; I'm wondering what it improves.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Something I've been forgetting; is Spell Focus a mitigating factor in developing spells? We had it at -2, right?

School specialty, but not Spell Focus.

And why do we base spell cost and development on USP? Why not just use SP instead? I bet we had a good reason, but it slips my mind at the moment. I'm thinking that it will make spell development more difficult for users of the system, and certainly more difficult for designers; I'm wondering what it improves.

Given how tight we've made mitigating factors, I think this would be OK - I'd originally assumed much freer use of them. It would certainly make calculation simpler.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Inspired by Nufrut.

This assumes an Infernal is CR 43 (Pd scale). Ritual adds +18 in free factors - I've assumed that in compound spells that a spell which is an eligible ritual contribution for either seed is eligible for the final spell. This spell stretches the limits of mitigation a little. Costed on the basis of SP, rather than USP - which might be a little cheap.

Or not. XP and component cost is sizeable.

Infernal Oracle
Conjuration (Calling)[Evil, Lawful, Mind-Affecting]

Spellcraft: 38 ranks
Components: V,S,P,XP
Casting Time: 1 day
Range: 75 ft.
Effect: One conjured infernal, confined to a glass jar
Duration: Permanent (D); see text
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Development
38 days; 38,000 gp; 1520 XP
Seeds: [Call], [Binding] (S)
Factors: Increase target CR (+52), metamorphosis (+8)
Mitigating Factors: Free factors (-18), power component (-10), burn 2500 XP (-10), extend casting time (-10), restricted (-10)
Feats: Animus Invictus

Description
From the steaming fringe of Hell, you call an LE infernal whose name is known to you, and confine its essence in a specially prepared receptacle: a crystal sphere approximately 1 foot in diameter. If the spell is successful, the fiend's head appears within the sphere. It may speak, but cannot use any of its special powers or spell-like abilities. The infernal's native immunity and any nonepic spells which provide protection against [mind-affecting] effects are ineffective against this spell.

Typically, the abomination is irascible and unhappy with its confinement, and you exercise no special control over its attitude to you: the infernal may reluctantly concede to a period of enforced servitude, however, if assurances are made to release it at an agreed future date, or it might resentfully aid you if threats (such as abandoning the sphere in a celestial ocean) are made against it. The infernal will lie, maneuver and dissemble to the best of its ability, but is powerless to prevent the use of spells which reveal falsehood, or spells which subsequently force servitude and compliance from it (such as dominate monster), although it is entitled to a saving throw as normal to avoid such effects.

If it comes into contact with weak-willed or gullible characters, the infernal will attempt to convince them to release it (Diplomacy +52, Sense Motive +51) by smashing the sphere: the owner of an infernal oracle may wish to take steps to prevent this by use of hardening or an epic spell using the fortify seed. The sphere is treated as an ongoing spell effect with regard to attempts made to dispel it, and a disintegrate spell or spell using the [destroy] seed destroys the sphere but releases the fiend unharmed.

An infernal oracle possesses formidable knowledge skills, which may prove useful to its owner, provided that the fiend's veracity can be monitored; as a powerful fiend, it may possess special specific knowledge of the Infernal regions and diabolic affairs.

Power Components: A flawless crystal sphere (worth 10,000 gp), powdered opals (worth at least 40,000 gp) and a carved statuette of the infernal to be captured (worth 50,000 gp).
XP Cost: 2500 XP.
Ritual Spell: An infernal oracle spell requires the participation of six additional spellcasters, each of whom contributes a dominate monster spell.