Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
I have to say, I suspect Star Wars Saga is going to be picked up by a lot of curious/nervous D&D DMs ...
Eric Noah's Info
- Thread starter sfgiants
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Animus
Explorer
LostSoul said:
Excited? No. Optimistic? Yes.
I don't believe the sky is falling like some on this thread has proclaimed. Right now, the rumors are just that--rumors. No official news yet. If 4E, whenever it comes, brings kids into my hobby, then that's a good thing. The next generation has to be taken into account. 4E has to appeal to them. The kids that get into RPGs are our lifeblood; they are into different things than we are. We gripe and complain about them, but did not the last generation do the same about us?
It is my belief that WotC will not overlook this fact.
Rodrigo Istalindir
Explorer
Kid Charlemagne said:On the subject of selling/licensing D&D the RPG - my question is who could afford to do it, and do it justice? I'd venture a guess that all the non-WotC RPG companies all put together couldn't buy it. Who could? Peter Adkison, where are you?
Licensing is essentially free (compared to producing your own entire product line). If Hasbro has decided that the RPG line isn't worth continuing, than any money from licensing that exceeds the policing costs is gravy. Requiring more money for the license than anyone could afford to pay would make no sense.
Obviously, they have to take care that mishandling of the license doesn't dilute the value of the brand as a whole, but that's what lawyers are for.
Kunimatyu
First Post
I don't think most of the changes EN talked about could be the end of the world.
It's a simple fact that our hobby needs high-school age kids to survive. Most highschoolers aren't going to drop $34.95 on the latest beautiful WotC hardcover. They might drop money into core rulebooks, but I guarantee you that future cash would be directly diverted to the D&D Minis line, if at all.
Therefore, instead of selling a $35-40 Complete Warrior, why not price some minibooks at 10-15 and gear them specifically towards player wants? A Paladin player might not buy Complete Divine -and- Complete Warrior at $70 just to get a few new options for their character, but they would buy a small softcover "Uber Paladins" for $10-15. And it's a lot less attractive to pilfer a $12.95 book over the internet -- especially if the PDF version of that same book was availablef for $5.
On the monster side of things, I'm not sure I'd mind some smaller books -- instead of Monster Manual IV, we could have Savage Humanoids, featuring orcs, gnolls, giants of varying types and classes and Spawn of Tiamat, draconic-themed monsters, unique dragons, and Tiamat herself. Each book release would also coincide with the latest minis set, so you could buy all the monsters in the book in a collectible plastic format (or not, if you're shemmie)
On the rules side of things, I'd like to point out just one thing -- if you take a look at 1E/2E stats and a DDM card, guess which side looks more like the old stats? It isn't the roleplaying side, that's for sure. Some streamlining of the class/monster rules could work out well for everyone, even those who don't use minis.
It's a simple fact that our hobby needs high-school age kids to survive. Most highschoolers aren't going to drop $34.95 on the latest beautiful WotC hardcover. They might drop money into core rulebooks, but I guarantee you that future cash would be directly diverted to the D&D Minis line, if at all.
Therefore, instead of selling a $35-40 Complete Warrior, why not price some minibooks at 10-15 and gear them specifically towards player wants? A Paladin player might not buy Complete Divine -and- Complete Warrior at $70 just to get a few new options for their character, but they would buy a small softcover "Uber Paladins" for $10-15. And it's a lot less attractive to pilfer a $12.95 book over the internet -- especially if the PDF version of that same book was availablef for $5.
On the monster side of things, I'm not sure I'd mind some smaller books -- instead of Monster Manual IV, we could have Savage Humanoids, featuring orcs, gnolls, giants of varying types and classes and Spawn of Tiamat, draconic-themed monsters, unique dragons, and Tiamat herself. Each book release would also coincide with the latest minis set, so you could buy all the monsters in the book in a collectible plastic format (or not, if you're shemmie)
On the rules side of things, I'd like to point out just one thing -- if you take a look at 1E/2E stats and a DDM card, guess which side looks more like the old stats? It isn't the roleplaying side, that's for sure. Some streamlining of the class/monster rules could work out well for everyone, even those who don't use minis.
SteveC said:
I need clarification on this point. Didn't WotC remove a number of monsters from the OGL around the time they released 3.5? The yuan-Ti, beholder, and a few others they claimed were trade dressings?
How does that jive with them not being able to change the OGL?
Any legal beagles want to take on this one?
Tom
who thinks 3.5 already wants to be Warhammer Quest, so going the full mile is no big stretch
kigmatzomat
Legend
Meh. I'm less than panicky. The OGL ensures that the D&D I currently play will stay in production. I have the core system in digital format and tons of PDF products I can acquire online. Remember, those PDF files will probably remain on sale for as long as the distribution system remains in place simply b/c there is no incentive NOT to leave it up for sale. Hard drive space is cheap.
So even if I fear for the worst unlike 2e, I don't have to worry about the books vanishing as they go out of print.
4e will probably be like 2e, redesigned for a mass-market approach that will be too bland to capture anyone's attention. The fans will buy it out of curiosity but interest will wane. I was left unsatisfied with 2e and thoroughly displeased with player's options. I was ecstatic at 3e and only mildly disappointed in 3.5, which kind of parallels my AD&D joy followed by the OA/UA rules tweaks that harshed on my happy.
If we are lucky, for 5e WHasbrotC will license it out to a fairly good sized organization, hopefully one that consists of experienced designers that team up with the specific purpose of making 5e. WotC was a young company with innovative staff (see
rimal Order) that had been prevented from making RPGs but landed neck deep in cash with the MtG craze. They had the energy, creativity, and drive to break free of the old tropes and recast the game into something that was significantly different but still true to concept.
We can only hope the 5e licensee will have the same verve and drive to do more than pay lip service to the rewrite and the willingness to make 5e feel like D&D.
So even if I fear for the worst unlike 2e, I don't have to worry about the books vanishing as they go out of print.
4e will probably be like 2e, redesigned for a mass-market approach that will be too bland to capture anyone's attention. The fans will buy it out of curiosity but interest will wane. I was left unsatisfied with 2e and thoroughly displeased with player's options. I was ecstatic at 3e and only mildly disappointed in 3.5, which kind of parallels my AD&D joy followed by the OA/UA rules tweaks that harshed on my happy.
If we are lucky, for 5e WHasbrotC will license it out to a fairly good sized organization, hopefully one that consists of experienced designers that team up with the specific purpose of making 5e. WotC was a young company with innovative staff (see
rimal Order) that had been prevented from making RPGs but landed neck deep in cash with the MtG craze. They had the energy, creativity, and drive to break free of the old tropes and recast the game into something that was significantly different but still true to concept. We can only hope the 5e licensee will have the same verve and drive to do more than pay lip service to the rewrite and the willingness to make 5e feel like D&D.
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Rodrigo Istalindir
Explorer
Wulf Ratbane said:
It is generally safe to assume that people will act in their own best interest. The dangers lie in assuming you both agree on what their best interests are. If their calculations show that enough existing players will buy the base product line (out of curiosity if nothing else) to offset quitters, than who knows what they'll do. I don't think they'd do anything to intentionally drive people away for the sake of doing so, but if they consider the 'old school' crowd to be a lost cause anyway, then it would be rational on their part to write them off.
Wulf said:
I guess that's the $128 question (or one of them). In my admittedly limited experience, I've not seen a lot of cross-over between the collectibles crowd and RPGs. There is certainly some overlap, but I'd be surprised to learn it was very big. 20 years ago, there were those that made the same arguments about classic (AH-style) wargames and RPGS, and now the classic wargame market is almost non-existant.
(If I win the lottery, the first thing I'm going to do is hire a prank-monkey. The second thing I'm going to do is hire a bunch of researchers so that when I want to know the answer to a question, I don't have to guess.)
