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D&D 5E Escapist article on SCAG is Brutal.

gyor

Legend
Both reviews were well done, both gave sound reasons for thier opinions which made sense, and honestly in my opinion they were right about most of it.

Show me where exactly they were wrong?

Were they wrong about having relatively low player content compared to what was advertized on the back? No there isn't a plethora of new player content.

Does the book have too little pages to justify being a hard cover? Yes, its doesn't open right or stay open, which reduces the quality of product.

Most of the rest is subjective, but they explain they're opinions. That's more then most lf the good reviews its gotten on this site do, and honestly I think the net positive review its gotten is underserved.

I agree with iO9 and escapist it tries to do too much and succeeds at none of them, for which I blame WotC for not the authors, its good enough to show you hint at what it could have been.
 

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Hussar

Legend
In the section on "The Afterlife" it reads:

Souls that are unclaimed by the servants of the gods are judged by Kelemvor, who decides the fate of each one. Some are charged with serving as guides for other lost souls, while others are transformed into squirming larvae and cast into the dust. The truly false and faithless are mortared into the Wall of the Faithless, the great barrier that bounds the City of the Dead, where their souls slowly dissolve and begin to become part of the stuff of the Wall itself.

Okay, I'm not sure what the problem is here. It's not a screw job for all PC's. Simply those that are "false and faithless". Most will become either larva or guides. No biggie.

Why does this matter? Does it affect Raise dead or anything like that? IOW, who cares?
 

Hussar

Legend
Both reviews were well done, both gave sound reasons for thier opinions which made sense, and honestly in my opinion they were right about most of it.

Show me where exactly they were wrong?

Were they wrong about having relatively low player content compared to what was advertized on the back? No there isn't a plethora of new player content.

Does the book have too little pages to justify being a hard cover? Yes, its doesn't open right or stay open, which reduces the quality of product.

Most of the rest is subjective, but they explain they're opinions. That's more then most lf the good reviews its gotten on this site do, and honestly I think the net positive review its gotten is underserved.

I agree with iO9 and escapist it tries to do too much and succeeds at none of them, for which I blame WotC for not the authors, its good enough to show you hint at what it could have been.

Let's unpack the iO9 review shall we?

iO9 Review said:
The Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide is especially disappointing. It’s really the first book Wizards has released for fifth edition D&D that isn’t a dreadfully long hardcover adventure campaign, but if you were hoping for a some quality splatbooks to expand your D&D campaign, you’ll have to keep waiting. The back cover copy claims it’s a “valuable resource for Dungeon Masters and players alike... contains a plethora of new character options.” None of those things are true unless you define plethora very loosely. It’s about 150 pages long and feels a little on the thin side for $40.

The first 120 or so pages offer a tour of the Forgotten Realms and describe how the various D&D races fit within that world. There isn’t a single game rule or statistic to be found, which might be fine if this didn’t feel like a reprint. The Realms have been described and redescribed in every edition over and over again—I doubt there’s anything here you couldn’t find in a wiki. There’s a nice map of the Sword Coast region, where we’ve been playing video games and introductory adventures for almost 20 years, but it’s a single page, not a foldout. Can we visit somewhere else in the Realms for a while?

The final 30 pages or so are decent, offering new class options specific to the Forgotten Realms and some useful flavor, like new wizard groups to join, new deities to worship, and several new backgrounds. If this section was the gravy on an otherwise useful book, it would be perfect, but here it takes center stage, and this content just isn’t strong enough to make the book worth your time

Ok, he complains the books is a "little on the thin side for $40". Fair enough. And certainly a valid criticism. Is it the value for the money? Of course, that's not what people are talking about in this or the other thread, so, that's more or less up to the reader to decide.

His next point "if you were hoping for a some quality splatbook" is a serious misstep. WotC made no secret that they were not going to make splat books. They've been saying the same thing over and over again for the past year. If you bought this hoping for a splat book, then that's on you. This was never supposed to be a splat. This is a setting guide for players. It does say that in the title right? I've read more than a few player's guides over the years, and I would never expect a player's guide to not be 75% flavour. I've got a Player's Guide to Thule sitting right here and, yup, same thing. I've got a player's guide to Zeitgeist, and yup, same thing. I've got a players guide to Scarred Lands on my shelf, and, shock and surprise, it's exactly the same thing.

Why is this a shock?

Now, his complaint is that the flavour material feels like a reprint. That it's not visiting "somewhere else in the Realms for a while". Well... it does say where it's talking about right there on the cover. It's not a guide to Faerun, nor is it anything other than what it is - a guide to the Sword Coast. Why would you expect this book to cover anything outside of the Sword Coast in anything more than a couple of paragraphs? Sure, be disappointed that it's not covering a different area, fair enough, but, that doesn't make this a bad book. Complaining that your Chinese restaurant doesn't have curry is a bit on you, not the restaurant.

And, in the last paragraph, he's pretty much showing his own preferences - crunch over fluff. Fair enough, reviewers don't have to be even handed. I'm a huge Jeremy Clarkson (of Top Gear) fan, even knowing he's a giant ass sometimes. Fair enough. But, again, a book isn't bad because it's mostly flavour. He's disappointed in the book because it's not a crunch heavy splat. Well, again, fair enough. But, since WotC's flat out said, multiple times, that they aren't going to produce crunch heavy splats, well, he's going to be disappointed by pretty much every book that comes out. He says the book is poor value because it doesn't have enough crunch and he doesn't value the flavour material because it's talking about an area of the Realms he doesn't care for.

Well, sure. This book is not for this dude. That doesn't make it a bad book, nor is this review particularly scathing really. He discounts flavour text as being for players. If you're going to quibble about the copy text on the back cover, good grief, that's just par for the course. Of course, what is a "plethora". Six full classes? They've just increased the number of classes in D&D by about a 15%. That's not exactly small potatoes. Since he actually thinks that the class section is quite strong, just how much class material would you expect in a book like this?
 

hawkeyefan

Legend
While I disagree with the negative reviews, reviews are certainly supposed to be opinion based. A review cannot be wrong, although certain facts cited in the review can be. But if I was put off by the font used for the credits page and I feel that ruined the book, then I can say so, and no one can actually "prove" me wrong.

It's all opinion. And yes, reviews should be opinion, as Moreus pointed out.

That being said, I would challenge an opinion on a book that is designed with a specific setting in mind that admits a level of dislike for that setting. If Wizards came out with an Ebberon Adventurer's Guide tomorrow, and I said I didn't like it because it had Warforged and Artificers and not Psionics and Thri-Kreen, it would seem a bit silly on my part. Clearly, I was hoping for a Dark Sun Guide.

But I think the Escapist reviewer pretty much admitted to that and then went on to give a pretty fair review. It's definitely far from "brutal", although that too is a matter of opinion.
 

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
Okay, I'm not sure what the problem is here. It's not a screw job for all PC's. Simply those that are "false and faithless". Most will become either larva or guides. No biggie.

Why does this matter? Does it affect Raise dead or anything like that? IOW, who cares?

All "false and faithless" means is that you don't worship a deity.

So, you know, any FR character you have, if he doesn't choose a Proper Noun to love, no matter what heroic or noble things he manages to accomplish, no matter how many times he saves the world, becomes soul-mortar. Or squirming larvae in the dust. Or, maybe, at best, a guide for souls awaiting their own turn in a paradise you will never see.

D&D Batman: "I've saved the world from the rising dragon queen, from the princes of elemental evil, and from rampaging demons coming out of the abyss! I died saving orphans in a burning building!"

Kelemvor the Penguin: "That's nice, but since you didn't even mention ANY of my friends while you did it, you're going to be a worm for all eternity."

tumblr_lzb9uyfa4o1qj4vs2o1_500.gif
 
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Random seriously dorky nitpick: That's not actually Batman in that clip. It's Superman in disguise. Therefore, your metaphor is faulty. ;)

(I have watched those cartoons way too many times, obviously, if I can recognize the episode/circumstances from a gif.)
 

Jeremy E Grenemyer

Feisty
Supporter
Having DM'd for a player whose character chose to claim no patron deity, it was fun to role play the character's afterlife. He nearly elected to join with the Devils in the Hells--and I got to roleplay the Devils that tried to recruit him.


Play possibilities like this never occur to the tiny handful of Realms fans I have observed raging online about the "unfairness" of the afterlife in the Realms. Too busy getting offended to think it through.

Note: the SCAG mentions devilish recruitment too, which is in line with prior Realms sourcebooks.
 
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garnuk

First Post
"false and faithless" means two things, not one. That you are a false person, and that you are faithless. Batman was not a false person, even if Superman dressed up as Batman might have been :p

There are many options for the faithless, including being a guide for other souls, as well as being recruited by devils or another deity who appreciates the works you have done.

When you misrepresent what the book writes, its called a strawman argument.
 

aramis erak

Legend
While I disagree with the negative reviews, reviews are certainly supposed to be opinion based. A review cannot be wrong, although certain facts cited in the review can be. But if I was put off by the font used for the credits page and I feel that ruined the book, then I can say so, and no one can actually "prove" me wrong.

Reviews CAN be wrong. When they are not reviewing the correct item, or when the reviewer chooses to ignore the content to rail on something else, or when they make claims of fact that are fictional.

io9 makes a few false claims stated as fact. They lay the implication on real thick that it was advertised as a whole-realms book, then judge it based upon that bizarre and fallacious mis-perception of what it's supposed to be.

Let's reduce their review to main points only.
  • it's not a whole realms book
  • The covertext makes it sound like a whole realms book
  • It's too short for the price
  • It isn't useful enough for the price
  • it's providing very basic overview of what it covers
  • That basic overview isn't needed
  • all that overview is rehash
  • it lacks enough crunch
  • The crunch it has is good
The bolded is a factual claim they make. And it happens to be true.
The underlined one is an opinion based upon an inferred false claim: the implied "it's supposed to have been" LIE they told themselves before looking at it.
The italics are opinion statements - which while they can't be wrong in and of themselves, they can be based upon wrong data, and thus invalid.
That it's a basic overview is arguable, but, essentially, a factual claim. That a basic overview isn't needed is provably false. If even one player needs that and finds it, it's a false "fact"...

That the price is too high for a book that size? Well, it's the same price for same page count as FFG or MWP charge. So, again, a false claim, but only because it's based upon the size. The later claim that it's not worth the price, that's opinion, and that's thus not a false claim.

At this point, I'm inclined to accuse io9's reviewer of being INTENTIONALLY deceitful. It might just be that he/she/it is a total asshat, or an ignoramus, but given the tone, and the opening line, no, it looks like intentional defamation of the product with included lies.
 

hawkeyefan

Legend
[MENTION=6779310]aramis erak[/MENTION] I'm not familiar with the io9 review, other than folks have mentioned it here. But I did say they can make factual claims that are incorrect.

Other than that though, we may have to agree to disagree about what constitutes a false statement. Page counts may be similar with other games/prices but one can still believe it is too much.
 

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