"Essentializing" the Martial Power source

[The Halfling]

I'm think of trying tis out in my next 4e campaign, but wanted to get some feedback to see potential issues I may encounter.

Quick background though. I love the Martial power source as it was designed from the beginning, so this isn't a reaction to verisimilitude. This is more a thought exercise in giving the Martial powers source it's own schtick, like the Psionic source. One of the design elements I did like about the martial classes in the Essentials books, is the fact that the classes all ran off basic attacks.

So I started thinking about modifying the powers detailed in the PHB1 first, to see how they would look and play. I used the Power Strike power from the knight and slayer as the basis for this change. I took the first level AED and rewrote them.

Doing this, gives me the following changes to how the classes work:
1. the powers are all scaling. Since basic attacks scale at 21st level, by basing the AED powers to run off basic attacks, they scale also.
2. All martial classes now play VERY nicely with the Warlord.
3. Martial Powers are very reliable.
4. Martial powers become very versatile. Since they run off basic attacks, melee based powers can utilize Melee Training to allow that Dex based fighter. I was going to give PHB1 rogues the Weapon Finesse ability that Ess. Thieves get.

Downsides:
1. non-martial powers do not scale at 21st level, except for at-wills. so this will put other classes behind the power curve just a bit.
2. certain magic items get a boost in effectiveness in relationship to the cost of the item.
3. spamming powers from other powers. Since most of the powers are free actions, the potential is there have power chain other powers. I'm thinking of adding a new martial keyword "Exploit" that states that only one power with the Exploit keyword can be used per turn.

Most if this I'm ok with. But what else could be a potential issue, and how could these sample powers be better worded. I only used powers from PHB1, since these can be freely gotten from WotC, in my example.

View attachment 49847

 

[the Jester]

A lot of Essentials stances and stuff basically already do what you're doing here.

I'm not sure what the actual payoff is; it seems like all you're doing is basically telling martial characters that like the AEDU structure, "Sorry, pick a different power source". Personally, I like having both the AEDU and the Esasentials approaches to choose from.

EDIT: I'd also be very wary of balance issues. Your "plays well with warlords!" argument, to me, is actually a warning bell, not an upside.

 

[The Halfling]

True, the essentials stances are similar, but are fire and forget. You set it during your turn and are stuck with it until you decide to change it in a later round. This way keeps the interactiveness of the original classes AEDU. You now have the flexibility PER ATTACK to add a kicker to the basic attack.

on you second point, I just not understanding. The AEDU structure is still there. I love that structure. The only change really is that the structure runs off basic attacks, and the powers are now kickers to said basic attacks. Essentially, most powers now gain what amounts to the Reliable keyword, since most key off hits. It's not my intention at all to make someone else feel like they are taking a different power source, but rather to try to make the Martial power source a bit more internally consistent.

Given that the essentials martial classes all play well with the warlord, and that free attacks are now limited to one per turn, that warning bell isn't as loud as it could have been. It is there, that I do grant.

 

[marelion]

I`ve just by now started reading your pdf-file and I already have one advice: Change the green tone your using to identify the at-will powers! It is difficult to read their names and the colour isn`t too pleasant to the reader`s eye imho. I`d suggest something a little darker, for ease of reading.

Other than this minor formal detail I`d agree with the Jester: If you effectively change all powers to basic attacks you are basically ruling out all other leaders from a point of sheer effectiveness. The Warlord is a little ahead of the other leader classes even now, so I don`t think he should receive more bonuses, even when these are dependant on the party`s composition.

OAs will be a lot more valuable to your players since everybody will have a decent MBA and you will have to be careful with the interaction of certain items like Horned Helmet, Bracers of Mighty Striking, the infamous Berserker`s Badge and the like.
This could make the battle more static from the PoV of your monsters, as your monsters will have to be double careful whether to move and risk taking an OA or not. Skirmishers will have a rough time avoiding your martial characters and lurkers might have trouble getting away after their surprise attacks.

Charge-builds will become even more powerful as a result of the implied changes and I´m not exactly sure if this is where you should be heading...Sure, charging has always been a powerful option but with your fixes in play even the rogue will be 'out-charging' the classic barbarian for increased accuracy and damage.

I`m curious, what was your motivation for this rather drastic change? I can see a lot of downsides to the "everything-counts-as-a-BA idea but I honestly have trouble of identifying the upsides

 

[The Halfling]

ah, the basic motivation is...can it be done. And can it be done in keeping with 4e's original design of balance.

I knew about the ramifications of the magic items, and in such an environment they would have to recalculated or redesigned.

Charge builds are another matter entirely. I'll have to work on that part. Thanks.

 

[Kzach]

True, the essentials stances are similar, but are fire and forget. You set it during your turn and are stuck with it until you decide to change it in a later round. This way keeps the interactiveness of the original classes AEDU. You now have the flexibility PER ATTACK to add a kicker to the basic attack.

Per attack is too powerful, IMO. It's one of the reasons why at-will attacks are limited to two or three per character. It's one of the reasons why the human is considered a good choice and why the half-elf is used for so many broken charop builds.

Making it a minor action 'fire and forget' is still a tactical choice but by taking up a minor action, you're limiting how powerful it can be. If I could make a knight that could slow (Defend the Line) or push (Hammer Hands) on any attack at his immediate discretion, that would absolutely be completely broken. I would be able to slow just about everything I hit for my main attack and interrupt push (denying the original attack/shift) on every opportunity attack.

 

[FireLance]

I like where you're headed with this, but I don't think you can simply convert the PH martial at-will, encounter and daily powers to trigger off successful weapon basic attacks and expect the balance to remain the same. As others have noted, this effectively makes the encounter and daily attacks reliable, and every opportunity attack and free basic attack taken by the PC has the potential to be turned into an encounter or a daily attack.

One possibility to balance it is to use the bladesinger bladespell restriction (from the Neverwinter campaign setting) that you can only get the benefits when you hit with a weapon basic attack on your turn. This would take care of the second concern of the PC getting the benefits on his off-turn attacks.

The first concern (effectively reliable encounters and dailies) is somewhat harder to address, and I think that in order to do so, you will need to develop new encounter and daily powers that trigger off a successful weapon basic attack instead of doing a simple conversion. Alternatively, the powers may allow the character to trade off damage for an extra effect, e.g. you may reduce the damage you deal by 5 points to knock the target prone.

 

[The Halfling]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback so far.

I saw the "quiet" addition of what amounted to the Reliable keyword being added to encounter and at wills.

Lots to look at and ponder on my side now.

Thanks again.

 

[The Halfling]

Ok, updated the attachment.

Still not perfect..obviously.

I added the Exploit Keyword, which basically adds the restriction the you can only use a power with the Exploit keyword once per turn, on your turn only.

I still need to mofidy the at wills a bit, and the Dailys still require a hit before they take effect, removing the silent Reliable keyword. I added back the Reliable keyword where applicable.

As for Encounter powers being ghost Reliable, I'm leaving it as is for now.

 

[The Halfling]

Another update to the pdf.

For simplicity, I removed all the other martial classes right now, and focused on the fighter in this doc.

I added the new Exploit keyword to some of the Encounter powers, mainly the ones that granted additional or cascading attacks.

I also expanded the list to cover all the AED powers to 9th level.