Essentials: Magic Item Rarity Explained, it's actually good!

[vagabundo]

The Ring in LotR was an unusual item - for DND - in that it's power was related directly to the power of it's owner at that time and it had a will of it's own.

It would be modeled better by being an Artifact I think.

 

[Scribble]

I think there should be a new theory that states all internet D&D discussions will inevitably lead back to LoTR (and how the current edition is good/bad at modeling it.)

 

[Someone]

The Ring in LotR was an unusual item - for DND - in that it's power was related directly to the power of it's owner at that time and it had a will of it's own.

It would be modeled better by being an Artifact I think.

Speaking from a literary point of view, there are only Rares and Artifacts
. Rares are character defining, since you as a general rule don't want to mention anything that's not related to the plot somehow and there's no much sense in pointing out that the protagonist's sword was slightly more sharp than a normal sword. If you're going to include a magic item in your narrative, it'd better be dramatic.

(Wait, I'm wrong. Boromir's sword in the books is implied to be magical, and it's only purpose is to show how tough trolls are and how Sting, wielded by a hobbit, could hurt them where a powerful warrior with a lesser weapon couldn't.)

Artifacts are plot defining. If they are not literally the tale's McGuffin, their involvement in the narrative makes them another character. The line sometimes blurr, however - I'm thinking on Stormbringer, for example.

Common items are a D&D neccesity. Player characters need something to spend their gold on, and a way to keep the math consistent. Uncommon items are a way for the DM to control how complex his game is and avoid multiple activated cheesiness. There's no need for them into narrative.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Do PCs /really/ need something to spend their gold on?

In 1e, 'training' was used as a giant gp suck. In 3.x and 4e, magic items can be made/bought, and that's the giant gp (and astral diamond) suck - plus, of course, the balancing yardstick for items is their cost.

The only reason to do that is if the /only/ way to motivate a band of adventurers is to wave levels or magic items - ie, personal power - under their noses. Actual heroism isn't even considered as a motivation. Could adventurers do something just for the love of adventure? Could they do something because it's the right thing to do? How about just to get rich and live the high life for a little while?

 

[Someone]

Do PCs /really/ need something to spend their gold on?

Not really. I ran a (3.5) campaing once where I houseruled most of magic item's mechanical benefits with inherent bonuses and spell-like abilities, and the characters were essentially penniless all the time. However, the pile of gold guarded by the monster has been a trope since ever. And if they have money, they should have something to spend it on. So far TSR nor Wizards considered the idea that you spend 3d20% of your current cast on booze and whores each day and instead took the more peregrine idea that you spend all your gold on magic items you use to kill monsters so you can loot their gold to spend it on magic items to kill monsters... which is something Donald Trump would do, but I don't really depict a barbarian doing.

 

[Bundersnatch]

The idea is good - the sale price thing isn't. It's completely counter to common sense that common items have the highest disparity between selling and buying price. The more common the item, the less the disparity between buying and selling an item should be.

Yes, I agree, but the problem is more serious. It actually just doesn't make sense that the sale price is 20% for an item that does not deteriorate in value!

True enough, if I can only sell an item for 20% of what I originally paid, then the item is very common. However, if an item is common, then I would not have had to pay 100% for it in the first place!

An example: my character wants to buy a +1 sword, and goes to the local merchant who is asking 360 gp. Finding this price too high, my character stands outside the merchant's shop with a sign saying "I buy +1 sword for 100 gp!". Since +1 swords are common and everyone who tries to sell only gets 72 gp, I will soon find a seller at that price!!

The only thing the merchant is offering me, is a wider choice of items, and the fact that I can save myself some time and effort in acquiring it myself. But this does not justify a 400% markup!

Realistic would be that the buying and selling prices are fairly close together for both common, uncommon and rare items, because the items do not deteriorate in value. And, as you say, the bigger difference in buy and sell prices is most likely to be for the rare items (and the reason for this is because the merchant has access to more buyers than I do).

Basically, the huge difference between buying and selling price is economic nonsense, and this has not been corrected by the new rules.

But, we probably have to accept this strange system because it just makes sense from a game mechanics point of view, for a number of reasons:

• It provides a way for the D&D economy to "burn" cash.
• It makes you more careful about the items you choose to buy (make a mistake, and you loose cash!).
• And it also makes items that you find "more valuable" than those that you can buy (because you can't just sell them to buy what you really want!)

 

[UngeheuerLich]

edit: nevermind...

 

[keterys]

Finding this price too high, my character stands outside the merchant's shop with a sign saying "I buy +1 sword for 100 gp!". Since +1 swords are common and everyone who tries to sell only gets 72 gp, I will soon find a seller at that price!!

How many +1 swords do you really think are being sold? If you have to stand outside that store for four months to get your sale, that's a net loss.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

How many +1 swords do you really think are being sold? If you have to stand outside that store for four months to get your sale, that's a net loss.

That's what I was going to say. I mean "Common" is a term that describes the item's rarity in relation to OTHER such items. It doesn't especially mean the item is common in actual terms. Most importantly it doesn't mean the item is very FUNGIBLE. This is where the simple economic arguments break down. The "common is cheap, has low markup" concept is TRUE for items that are commodities. Not all items ARE however commodities. Consider wedding rings. They are dime-a-dozen in the sense that you can get one in 100 different places, usually inside an hour. The resale value is still close to zilch. They just aren't all that fungible.

That's the situation I think with magic items. Even the common ones are expensive luxury goods. At best they're specialist tools that are mostly purchased and retained for a long time. The turnover isn't large, so they aren't easy to move quickly.

The REALLY hard to find items are equally difficult to move and just as expensive, but they are also unique enough that if someone DOES want it, they'll pay a premium because it is unusual or one-of-a-kind.

 

[nookiemonster]

Something that seems to have been ignored is that by RAW, PCs don't buy their magic items at list price, but at list + 10-40%. At least under PHB1/DMG1 rules, I don't know if this rule is in Essentials. Even if the manufacturer's cost is list price, the manufacturer is still making a profit. So enchanting their own gear is always cheaper.

If only Essentials rules are being used, then PCs don't have the Ritual Caster feat (AFAIK), and cannot enchant their own items. I don't know whether the markup rule is in force in Essentials, but either way, it's still going to be better for PCs to find common items rather than buy them. Found items are free and you get 20% of the list price back when you sell it, as cash, and they're pretty much instantly saleable in any large town. In addition, a common item is useful in your adventures, which gold isn't. Gold is only useful when you buy something useful with it.

As for uncommon and rare items, the list price is meaningless as a purchase price because once sold, these items are removed from the game completely as far as the PCs are concerned.