Essentials missing simple casters

[UHF]

Iron Heroes was a disaster when it came to balance. Several classes were overshadowed totally by other classes. I wouldn't look for it for anything.

We're talking about 4e, not Iron Heroes. You might be able to drop an Arcanist into 4e and have it work just fine. He'd work just fine as a straight forward blaster. In fact he might be somewhat underwhelming if you do the math. (Sort of between a striker and a controller.)

Looking at the math, an Arcanist isn't going to vaporize anything in 4e... just like a magic user in 4e. He's going to have a limited day, and when he goes a up a few levels, he's going to be able to do a few fireballs, and as everyone knows, fireballs aren't as exciting in 4e. But several might be fun.

Soo.. Magic user Class.. the basics like prestidigidation, light, etc, and *gasp* magic Missle (the new one), and toss Arcanist powers on top of that.

 

[UHF]

That's a good point. Our DM is doing something similar. We've started at 8th level and we're still getting to know our characters so that has something to do with it. Thing is we've all played 4e for about a year in the campaign I ran. We started at 1st and ended at 8th. But throughout that year these 3 players struggled with tactical power use and just making sense of their powers. If a player just doesn't care about fiddly bits then no amount of "teaching" is going to make them remember. They just want to do cool magic stuff and lots of damage OR heal the party OR be mischievous and whimsical.

Arcanist healer would need lots of work... since its build is around hit points. So you could just increase the number of points he can heal in a day... but that alters the healing surge dynamic in 4e. More thought is needed.

The funny part is that a healer is also a ... necromancer. They have the power over life and death. (How long till the pacifist, umm.. gets tempted to bring back some dead for combat sand bags? If you let it happen... make them minions of character level.)

 

[MrGrenadine]

Soo.. Magic user Class.. the basics like prestidigidation, light, etc, and *gasp* magic Missle (the new one), and toss Arcanist powers on top of that.

Kinda like the Blaster I proposed in post 27--cantrips and a narrow band of powers that increase in range, effectiveness and damage as the character levels up.

And it doesn't have to be damage based--make an Illusionist by creating a small set of illusions that grow in range and power as the character levels up, eventually adding conditions on top.

In any case, if you give a player a small selection of spells to choose from, and then amp them up in interesting ways as the character gains levels, it seems to me that you could create a caster thats simple to learn but interesting to play.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I wonder if the Hexblade won't be a "simple" caster in the Essentials sense. If it's melee focused, an approach similar to the Rogue or Fighter could work.

 

[igniz13]

That's a good point. Our DM is doing something similar. We've started at 8th level and we're still getting to know our characters so that has something to do with it. Thing is we've all played 4e for about a year in the campaign I ran. We started at 1st and ended at 8th. But throughout that year these 3 players struggled with tactical power use and just making sense of their powers. If a player just doesn't care about fiddly bits then no amount of "teaching" is going to make them remember. They just want to do cool magic stuff and lots of damage OR heal the party OR be mischievous and whimsical.

What are they playing and what are they having trouble with.

You can just make a blaster caster in 4e, the Wizard and Sorc can be played to very straightforward designs, but it sounds like their tactical play is what's causing grief.

What tactics are they failing at?

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=90483]igniz13[/MENTION], I think I covered that in post #20 (typing from phone so cant link, sorry). [MENTION=62619]MrGrenadine[/MENTION], Yeah I like your blaster concept and maybe that's the direction they'll take with the e-warlock? You inspired me to try my hand at a homebrew caster class- maybe just maybe when I share it with DM and other players they'll want to try it out.

 

[igniz13]

There is much that could be said about your players.

Sounds like the group needs to be better at note-taking and recording effects though. List monsters, effects and when those effects end. Go through each round and make sure everything ends.

It's less an issue of class design and more power choice and game administration. Power cards, action cards and quick sheets would help.

 

[Quickleaf]

There is much that could be said about your players.

Isn't there always? Technically, I am a player this time too, so their not "mine."

Sounds like the group needs to be better at note-taking and recording effects though. List monsters, effects and when those effects end. Go through each round and make sure everything ends.

It's less an issue of class design and more power choice and game administration. Power cards, action cards and quick sheets would help.

Here's what we're doing so far, but maybe we're missing something?

Power cards (and I made custom template to simplify). I've made editable Essentials char sheet as it's easier on the eyes. A custom DM screen with info on players side. Condition tokens. Wireframe zone markers. Sticky tack and toothpick flags for random stuff. Initiative board and init caller. Fyi we have 7 players and two and a half controllers.

Part of it is "game administration" sure, but I think the bigger issue is a certain player type that doesn't mesh with the tactical nature of 4e as well.

My approach (since playing 4e is *probably* a given at this point) is to look at way to modify the classes, since that's the main way players interface with the game rules.