D&D 4E Essentials, questions from someone trying out 4e again

I think essentials being a bit more unpopular is going to make getting content for it hard. But I appreciate the advice so far. There are things I like from previous books but I am afraid of opening the flood gates of complication and imbalance by taking them.

DnD just has a history of making supplements that serve no other purpose than to unbalance the perfect game they made just a year before.

1st- unearthed arcana
2nd- skills and powers
3rd- phb2 and the random complete books they made after they already made a complete book for each class

I just am worried if I add to much everything will tilt
 

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I think essentials being a bit more unpopular is going to make getting content for it hard. But I appreciate the advice so far. There are things I like from previous books but I am afraid of opening the flood gates of complication and imbalance by taking them.

DnD just has a history of making supplements that serve no other purpose than to unbalance the perfect game they made just a year before.

1st- unearthed arcana
2nd- skills and powers
3rd- phb2 and the random complete books they made after they already made a complete book for each class

I just am worried if I add to much everything will tilt

A couple of things (disclaimer, purely in my opinion) about essentials and the current state of the art in published D&D.

You have been away and your memories where from a time when WotC was publishing too much, too fast with too little quality control.

You also then missed the massive correction that happened when errata started coming hard and heavy.

You need to let go of the, "this is what happened when I first played 4e" and look at the lay of the land today.

1) WotC is now publishing less material with much higher quality, which in turn has required less "fixing" in errata.

2) Essentials classes have, for the most part, been pretty well balanced and work well with the previous AEDU classes. In play they act just like their counter parts, the main difference is presentation.

3) Powers are pretty well balanced (with a few notable exceptions, yes Twin Strike I am looking at you) its the feats you have to examine a little closer. And by examine closer I mean allowing feats from pre-essentials material to mix with essentials.

4) The other area that still hasn't been addressed is mundane weapons from Adventurer's Vault (Full Blade, Executioner Axes, etc).

In all, I would allow anything published in Heroes of the [Adjective] [Noun] books, Heroes of the Feywild/Shadow, Neverwinter Campaign Guide, Mordy's Magnificent Emporium. Most Dragon stuff from the last year is good (provided you use any errata out for it). Stuff prior to a year ago I would examine closer.

For all the above, my main criteria would be, does it fit the campaign I am running? If it thematically doesn't fit, then don't use it.

If you are going to use material prior to the publication of essentials then I would allow the errated races (sight unseen), most powers (with errata), and be very selective about feats.

Magic items are a whole 'nother issue. This is another area where some poor design choice prior to essentials compromises the whole-sale use of material. I start very conservatively and only allowing stuff from older sources after vetting. With Mordy's book there is now enough stuff to hit a lot of the basics using just essentials.

If you aim is super low overhead as a DM, then I would restrict to just essentials sources to begin with and slowly expand out of it. If you want a little more variety, add all races and some select classes (say the Dragon write ups of the PH1 classes like the Warlord, Cleric, etc.). If you want even more variety then open up all non-essentials classes. I would keep a firm hand on feats and magic not matter what. I also would ban all weapons from AV1.

One last thing. This should be a negotiation between you and the players. Yes, players will want it all. But if you blanket ban stuff without input from your players you miss out on making them part of the vetting process. You just have to be ultra clear what criteria will allow something into the campaign.

Also, make sure you use monsters that have had the MM3 math changes. It will keep things from getting too grindy (though part of that is encounter design). There are several threads on keeping combats from devolving into spamming low damage at wills vs. opponents with lots of hit points left.

My two coppers,
 

I appreciate the input, I understand not everything is broken before essentials but wizards never made an effort to clean up things they know are bad, like essentials classes and pre essentials attack bonus tax feats, and unless it came out very recently, no errata on mm1 only the essentials versions of some of the monsters eg. There are now 2 blue dragons.

The pre essentials battle length was a huge issue, everyone got bored because the monsters were poorly designed.

They fixed that in the new books, but with out some kind of quick reference to what is balanced and what isn't thats a lot of work for me.

If there is a quick reference please let me know. That would be awsome.
 

They fixed that in the new books, but with out some kind of quick reference to what is balanced and what isn't thats a lot of work for me.

If there is a quick reference please let me know. That would be awsome.

The balance is fine. 4e (pre- and post-Essentials) is the most balanced D&D ever. You don't have to worry about it. If one of your players seems overpowered, check the errata (available free on the WotC site). Or ask here. But other than that, stop worrying about it. You're stressing over something that isn't a problem.

Monster design is a problem. The old monsters are usable, but they can be boring at higher levels. Here's your quick reference:

* The best monsters were published in MM3 and later (Dark Sun Campaign Guide, Monster Vault, MV: Threats to Nentir Vale, others?).

* Avoid using solo monsters from MM1. Most of them are bad.

* Everything else, add 1/2 level to damage.
 

In the game there are feats that add a bonus to all weapons in a group and a diierent feat to add to just one weapon. That's not balanced.
 

In the game there are feats that add a bonus to all weapons in a group and a diierent feat to add to just one weapon. That's not balanced.

If you're talking about the old expertise feats vs. the new ones, the new ones add the bonus to a whole category as well, but also add in some other nifty bonus. They're not unbalanced; the original ones are just obsolete. But, look at it this way--they're still around in case the DM wants to give them out for free (to fix the math), as many have done.

If you're talking about something else, I'm not sure what.
 
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I was actually looking for help, just making a response to the "you can use pre essentials material just fine" comments. I disagree with that. And I do appreciate the help, I am looking at the heroes of books, seeing if I can use those, but I don't think I can use pre essentials material or online material at all, I do want more options though, mostly things like clerics domains, and the base DnD classes like bard, Druid, that kinda stuff with out unbalancing or making the game tedious.
 

[MENTION=69155]Layander[/MENTION]

I'll tackle your four questions in OP - they seem to be pretty common concerns (except #4) for folks getting back into 4e.

1. Is the power level actually stable
If you mean as PCs level, I can only comment accurately about levels 1-10. Yes levels 1-10 are stable.

2. Is it hard to run essential style only content
Assuming you mean from the DM's perspective, no it's not hard. Actually you could even say it's easier because (a) monsters are better designed & (b) there's less errata.

I think the crux of your concern boils down to monsters. Short answer is use MM3 and later Monster Vaults products, Dragon #388 and later, and Dungeon #179 and later. That gives you lots of monsters. I you want to use older monsters grab my 4e DM cheat sheet and update them yourself (running the number takes all of a minute). Be aware that recent Dragon articles have been updating old monsters from the MM like wights and ghosts.

3. The cleric, and wizard only have 2 and 3 magic specialties, are there ways of adding more domains and schools with out tilting the game to the direction I have seen before
Correction. Cleric has 4 now, including Death in "Heroes of Shadow" and Earth from Dragon (I forget issue #). And Wizard has 6, including Necromancy & Nethermancy in "Heroes of Shadow", and Pyromancy in Dragon #391.

You also were concerned about a lack of essentials classes like Druid and Bard. Well, both exist as essentials classes. In HotFK there is a sentinel Druid as a leader, and the recent "Heroes of the Feywild" has a skald Bard.

If you have DDi there's a built in option in the character builder to make an Essentials only character. IOW the program filters out all old "unbalanced" feats.

4.. The game seems to level fairly quickly from my experiences, while we didn't have much time to play back then, we all felt a little odd gaining 3 levels in 1 dungeon that is only 2 levels deep.
This question is answered explicitly for you on DMG page 121.

Any other questions? :)
 
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Addendum

Quickleaf said:
Correction. Cleric has 4 now, including Death in "Heroes of Shadow" and Earth from Dragon (I forget issue #). And Wizard has 6, including Necromancy & Nethermancy in "Heroes of Shadow", and Pyromancy in Dragon #391.

You also were concerned about a lack of essentials classes like Druid and Bard. Well, both exist as essentials classes. In HotFK there is a sentinel Druid as a leader, and the recent "Heroes of the Feywild" has a skald Bard.

A correction to that correction, and an addendum. As mentioned upthread, the Cleric (Warpriest) has eight, now. You also get Corellon (magic/fey/archery), Ohgma (knowledge), Selune (the moon), and Torm (protection, also used for Bahamut) in the Neverwinter Campaign Setting. Some refluffing might be needed for the more general fit. The Earth domain (according to the NWCS) showed up in Dragon 392.

Also in Heroes of the Feywild, you have another Druid build, the "Protector" (a controller that is more summon-y). This one can even take (with feats) wild-shape/beast form powers.

The cleric (warpriest) may seem to have more options, but the wizard (mage) gets to pick two from the set of six (one major and one minor). There could potentially be 30 different mage combinations (with a lot of overlap between 15 X/Y and the matching Y/X), and the mage school choices don't dictate choice of powers like warpriest domains do.

[MENTION=69155]Layander[/MENTION]
To address the OP, though, it all works pretty well together, especially if you redo monsters from earlier books to match the design goals of the later ones. On the player side, there really isn't much (if any) balance difference between a pre-essential character and a post-essential character. This is more true if all the options (pre and post) are available to all the characters (Essentials feats for pre-E characters, and old-style feats for E-characters).

As a DM and player with a lot of experience mixing both essentials and pre-essentials characters (and parts from each, on the player side), I'd like to know what makes you inclined to disagree with the "you can use pre essentials material just fine" statements. I can give you real-play experience testimony on a variety of particulars, if you let me know what is troubling you.
 

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