ETools class creation?

[Margaiaman]

Two situations/questions

I suppose its possible to create new classess using this software. I see the potential...but I have no manual to give me insight and I cannot seem to navigate Access as well as I would like.

I have been attempting to input Monte Cook's Ranger, as I have a multi-classed Fighter/Ranger in my Friday night game that uses that particular ranger class.

Here is what I have found so far. (I got as far as class features and feats....didn't actually check skills or anything else yet.)

For some odd reason the class features page does not list bonus fighter feats and lists one too many bonus ranger feats. It does not allow me to enter a favored enemy either.

On the page where the actual feat selection is done I find that I have the correct number of bonus feats for the fighter class, but none for the ranger class.

Has anyone figured out this particular problem or is there something so burried in the source code that I might as well not even try? (I can take more feats than alloted and just pretend I'm taking the correct ranger class)


My second situation revolves around skill points.

I didn't check to see if the modified ranger has his correct skill points...and I'm not too worried about it at the moment. What I am interested in is adding skill points to the existing classes. Our game has a house-rule giving each class more skill points. Although I can modify the database for the core classes, the change does not seem to actually take effect in the program. Again am I completely off base or did I miss something in my modification attempts?

Thank you in advance for any help.

 

[Twin Rose]

Since the program doesn't have a class editor, I doubt all the relevant data is stored in the files themselves - which means, things like bonus feats for the alt. ranger, or a few other things like non-standard BAB won't be enterable at all. I could be wrong - I haven't gotten past install on E-Tools - but I don't believe you'll have 100% functionality by hacking data files.

 

[Margaiaman]

Curses....

I don't understand this at all.

I got the skill modification to work just fine. So that is all well and good.

What I don't understand is why class creation is not simple.

Should it not be as easy as enter the features of the class in all the appropriate places and have it load up just fine?

I don't see any difference between the alt ranger's favored enemy feature and the one for the normal ranger.

I don't see any difference between the bonus feats listed by the fighter class and the one now listed by my own entered class. I even used their drop down and select from our list of features option.

Is it too much to ask to be able to easily and swiftly add in desired additional classes? Is it too much to ask for this to make any sort of sense what-so-ever?

I can't say that I followed the instructions...since there are none. I can say that there seems to be no logical reason for the problems I'm having.

 

[Twin Rose]

There's a very simple reason: A good class editor is HARD to program. Take it from me - Campaign Suite does come with one, and I spent a LOT of my development time on it, and CS is meant to be a DM's tool!

But I knew that to remain competitive I would need one - and I'm very glad that I did. People who have man different classes that they use -need- it. The way the D20 system is, though, there are so many things that can go into it that I doubt I'll ever be done. No more, anyway, than the D20 System will be "Done".

E-Tools was never advertised with a class editor, noone said it would have one, and many were upset that it didn't. You didn't buy the product expecting a Class editor, I hope. As I understand, there's hope of adding one in the future - keep your fingers crossed.

 

[Margaiaman]

Actually yes.

Yes...I bought it on the understanding that it would be useful in that regard.

I guess its why I'm not a programer, but I don't see why class features are tied so tightly to the class that they cannot be moved to another class.

Is it truely that difficult to have created the program with the features of the classes divorced from the classes themselves?

It seems to my mind a simple thing.

One box with all the features, another with all of the classess. The classess draw from the feature box, but the feature box does not draw from the classess box. Thus when a new class is made it can draw from the same feature box without trouble.

Again I'm not a programer, so since it seems like it should be a simple thing I feel like I am being taken advantage of by those who have made the program.

 

[bushfire]

E-Tools was never advertised with a class editor, noone said it would have one, and many were upset that it didn't. You didn't buy the product expecting a Class editor, I hope. As I understand, there's hope of adding one in the future - keep your fingers crossed.

Ryan Dancey covered this over on the Wotc boards a long time ago when the changes that resulted in eTool were released.

It is not that eTools can not have new classes/Prc's entered it is because Fluid/Wotc ran out of time/money to implement a class editor.

For the majority of classes/Prc's, those that do not do funky things with the rules, they *can* be entered into the database. For those that do have wierd things, Dragon Disiple was one mentioned, there has to be code changes to make them work.

There hopefully will be a class editor add-on released from Fluid someday and in the meantime there are people working on creating 3rd party class editors for the database (Davin for one).

 

[jaults]

Re: Curses....

I don't see any difference between the alt ranger's favored enemy feature and the one for the normal ranger.

I don't see any difference between the bonus feats listed by the fighter class and the one now listed by my own entered class. I even used their drop down and select from our list of features option.

    I had the same results you did. I added everything to the DB to copy Ftr (Bonus Feats) and Rgr (Favored Enemy) class features. I also added the list of Feats to the "info Class Bonus Feats" table. But unfortunately, I can't select Favored Enemies or Bonus Feats when creating an Alt.Ranger character...
    So, apparently, those features are hardcoded in the app for the Ftr and Rgr (and Loremaster, for that matter - note how you can select a bonus feat when you qualitfy for the Applicable Knowledge Secret). However, it looks like that Fluid has made a good start with the DB to allow this functionality later.

Thanks,
    Jason

 

[Margaiaman]

Thats my problem

I suppose I don't get it.

Hardwired class features make no sense to me. I don't see why they had to be designed that way. Could they not make the classess in such a way that they drew from a pool of class features without forcing those class features to be linked forever and inexplicably to those classess?

If they are so hardwired to the classess why even have all of the seperate data bases at all? The wizard and fighter class both use the Bonus Feat class feature. What is so magical about the words Bonus Feat that force them to be used only with Fighter or Wizard classess.

Is it 100% absolutely impossible to make that Bonus Feat actually be a free floating feature that could be added to any other list on the class features data base?

I don't believe it.

It seems so easy to implement. I can see it in my mind at least. The program itself won't even let one enter a feature that is not listed on their list of special class features. So one would think that drawing from this list would implement said feature in the new location as well.

If I have legos and use a red brick while making a house, this does not prevent me from using an identical red brick when making a car. This is the way I see it.

The way the data base is set up, it appears to be a pool of class features that could be added together easily enough. In practice it is all a lie. It makes one feel scammed, cheated, or even abused.

I know programming is complicated. I know it is beyond my patience. But I can not see how it is so integral to the program that the class features be so tightly attached to the classess that the program began with that they cannot be used with any other classess. That seems to be the most ineffectual way to develope a program that is supposed to be upgradeable and may even have to reuse such prelisted class features in other classess.

This rant could continue forever I suppose, though it does make me feel a little better to actually vent my feelings as opposed to destroying my computer. I hope the Fluid boards are up again soon so I can ask Fluid exactly why they chose to design the program this way.

 

[Twin Rose]

I know for a fact it's not easy - Campaign Suite has it working so you can create features that do what you want them too, and I spent a lot of time working to make it that way.

Why didn't they? I don't know. I guess they had to duck a few things that I did not, though I spent a LOT of time working strictly on licensing.

There are no 'good' answers to this - only what I know, and what I've done with my own application. And, I'm glad to say, my customers have been happy even with this new program on the market.

 

[Q1000]

Hi

I have added 2 campaign specific classes to my game, one is a thug from the book Traps and treachery, he gets a bonus feat at 10 level.
Bonus feats are covered on the Info class screen under the columns Bonus FP and levels for bonus. Review the fighter entry and wizard entry on how this is done.

The actual bonus feats then have to be listed on the Info Class Bonus Feats screen where Classid is the new class and FeatID is the bonus feat. Both columns are filled out by a drop down menu. The feats have to exist in the info feat screen to be used here.

When I create a thug character a little window opens up at 10th level on the feat screen to get my bonus feat.