Everquest the rpg (tradeskills ponderings)

[Belares]

Well my group is playing this game and we all really like it, mind you 3/4 of us play the online game. There are a few things we don't like, for one the DMG is due out in December(wow) and a lot of rules in Players books says"look in DMG for rules on this".

One rules are tradeskills (craft skills) as in 3E they are good to have, but not a big deal. In EQrpg they ARE a big deal. There is no craft wonderous items (as far as I can see), SO LIKE IN THE ONLINE GAME, THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE MAGICAL ITEMS ARE to be a master in your tradeskill.

With that said I am wondering what or when can you make things with craft skills and is it a straight DC or must you have a minimum in ransk to be able to even try it then get a DC check as well.

Her is a example of what I mean(if you dont understand EQ this may seem foriegn):

Wu's Fighting Gauntlets (monk/beastlord only)
Combine in a tailoring kit: (1) Greater lightstone(from a wil-o-wisp), (4) heady kiolas(must be made from the brewing skill), (1) vicious mana (must be gotten from a enchanter that has approite spell), and (1) glove pattern (sold from vendors/shop owners)
must have a minimum of 8 ranks in craft: tailoring and requires a DC of 21
If succesful the wearer of these items gains the ability to hit creatures that have a DR of +2 or less and weighs 0.2 special abilty on command gloves glow like if you were carrying a torch.

Ok mind you i took a liberty on what the item can do, but it is in the spirit of the online game. The reason i did this is because the rules are in the DMG and we wont see it till December and there is no other explanation of Craft skills anywhere i have found.

If you have any info from another source please post it. Thanks

 

[HellHound]

That's exactly the reason I'm waiting for the GM's book.

No one in the play group that we started playing EQRPG with has ever played the online game... so we are delaying the game as much as we can for now.

 

[Tsyr]

First, I would suggest you dispense with the "Combine in XXXXX kit" and "4x Heady Kiolla... Your not using four of a specific thing, your just using more of it. Likewise, I'd dispense with the need for things like patterns and molds... they are (really) just a game way of limiting you. You don't smith a sword from a mold (Unless you want it to snap on you), or armour or anything, and a halfway decent tailor doesn't need a patern to make a shirt.

Second, the problem with DR... In EQ, it's a yes/no question... you either can hit an object with DR, or you can't... there is no +1/+2/+3/+4/+5. To be "accurate" to the game, no monster should ever have over DR 1, except with under the effect of, for example, a Rune spell, in which case they would have +2. And all weapons/magic gloves would be, in effect, a +1 weapon.

 

[Belares]

First, I would suggest you dispense with the "Combine in XXXXX kit" and "4x Heady Kiolla... Your not using four of a specific thing, your just using more of it. Likewise, I'd dispense with the need for things like patterns and molds... they are (really) just a game way of limiting you. You don't smith a sword from a mold (Unless you want it to snap on you), or armour or anything, and a halfway decent tailor doesn't need a patern to make a shirt.

As i was giving some flavoring to the tradeskill and this game is derived from the online game, I was just showing what you need to make the item. I am sure that the designers of the RPG will still use some of the online games components, but may just note that "this is what is needed to make item xxx.

The question I really have is..you play EQO or did you get the book and think why would anyone use all that stuff just to make 1 item? If you have played EQO and have done tradeskills it IS that way and I was showing the intristics of the whole process.

Also one last thing have you ever sewed or made a sword? Patterns and Molds for Tailoring and pottery or whatever, ARE essential, at least in EQ. LOL

 

[Tsyr]

The question I really have is..you play EQO or did you get the book and think why would anyone use all that stuff just to make 1 item? If you have played EQO and have done tradeskills it IS that way and I was showing the intristics of the whole process.

Yes, I play EQ online, since beta, until the current day. What works in the game need not be carried over to the pen and paper game though... I mean, the game itself departs from the online game in places. And do you REALLY think you can walk across 1/4 of the planet (About the distance from Freeport to Qeynos*) in just over a day? Nuh-uh. The world is a lot bigger than it seems in game, too.

Also one last thing have you ever sewed or made a sword? Patterns and Molds for Tailoring and pottery or whatever, ARE essential, at least in EQ. LOL

200+ brewing
200 fletching (Fear my leet darkwoods!)
200 smithing
200 tailoring
200 pottery
50 or so jewelcraft

Yes, I've done that junk in game.

I've also done all that stuff IRL. Well... not fletching. Everything else on that list though. And I'm fairly certain I could do some basic fletching if called to task.

Patterns are a modern invention, they didn't even really EXIST in a mideval type setting.

Molds are a VERY poor way to make a sword. It will work, but the steel won't ve trustable.

Sketches to make a bowl? And why, praytell, does the sketch get destroyed after every use?

My point is, IN GAME, these things -patterns, molds, sketches, etc- are use as limiting devices... "ok, we put patterns in this zone, ore in this zone, molds in this zone... that will mean it will take at least XXXX time to make XXXX product, etc". In a pen-and-paper game, trying to retain those conventions is a poor idea that both breaks "immersion" and would irritate a lot of players (Myself, of course, included).


*Don't belive me? Check out the globe in Skyshrine Mountains

 

[Belares]

My point is, IN GAME, these things -patterns, molds, sketches, etc- are use as limiting devices... "ok, we put patterns in this zone, ore in this zone, molds in this zone... that will mean it will take at least XXXX time to make XXXX product, etc". In a pen-and-paper game, trying to retain those conventions is a poor idea that both breaks "immersion" and would irritate a lot of players (Myself, of course, included).

So because it is a irritant to you doesnt mean that others would not enjoy it. Of course, having done tailoring for a long time(on EQO), I would enjoy it being relatively easier to do in the RPG.

Also thanks for making sure everyone knows that you have played EQO since its inception, and you know what the EQrpg should and should not have. LOL

 

[Tsyr]

Also thanks for making sure everyone knows that you have played EQO since its inception, and you know what the EQrpg should and should not have. LOL

Ok, now hold on.

I have done nothing but voice my opinion, YOU are the one that starts out with the vailed insults.

You asked if I had played the game.

The question I really have is..you play EQO or did you get the book and think why would anyone use all that stuff just to make 1 item?

See? You asked. I answered. Then you start making fun of me for that? Right.

I never claimed to know what the game should and should not have; I was giving you my view based on real-world facts and how I would do thing in the pen and paper game. I gave a SUGGESTION that, in your position, I would not do things the way they are in game. I went on to back up my SUGGESTION after you start saying "But in EQ that's how it is" with some basic real world information, and explained to you where I was coming from in terms of experience and so forth.

Don't attack me and claim I was doing things I wasn't, k?

Anyhow, on to the rest of the post...

So because it is a irritant to you doesnt mean that others would not enjoy it.

Frankly? Yes, in this case I am going to be that presumptious. I've never met ANYONE who actualy LIKED the EQ tradeskill system. Ever. A few people could tollerate it, but most everyone I know both IRL and IG agrees that the EQ system was basicly just designed to limit your rate of advancement.

And, frankly, I do vaugly take offence at some of the assumptions behind the EQ system... the fact that, for example, no matter how many times I've made a pair of pants, no matter what my skill is, no matter what my INT and WIS is, no matter if I am the best tailor in the entire known universe, I can't POSSIBLY make a pair of pants without looking at a pattern, a pattern which I apparently in my ignorance rip up after I'm done.

 

[Griswold]

I would probably take a moderate approach to trade skills. I would also dispense with patterns and kits and such. The thing I would maintain though is items such as the essance of shadow, shadow tempers, ect. that are used in the racial armors and really high up stuff. These items can be little mini-adventures unto themselves.


Gris


<warms his hands over the thread>


edit:spelling

 

[Tsyr]

I would probably take a moderate approve to trade skills. I would also dispense with patterns and kits and such. The thing I would maintain though is items such as the essance of shadow, shadow tempers, ect. that are used in the racial armors and really high up stuff. These items can be little mini-adventures unto themselves.

Agreed. And provide a lot of roleplaying fuzzyness... I've used some of them in my own games.

I generaly just handle it like "You need a lot of XXXX" or "You need a little of XXXX", not "You need 3 XXXX", though.

 

[Belares]

I have done nothing but voice my opinion, YOU are the one that starts out with the vailed insults.

first off I wasn't trying to veil my insults.

I never claimed to know what the game should and should not have; I was giving you my view based on real-world facts and how I would do thing in the pen and paper game. I gave a SUGGESTION that, in your position, I would not do things the way they are in game. I went on to back up my SUGGESTION after you start saying "But in EQ that's how it is" with some basic real world information, and explained to you where I was coming from in terms of experience and so forth.

Second you did try and say what the game should and should not have:

First, I would suggest you dispense with the "Combine in XXXXX kit" and "4x Heady Kiolla... Your not using four of a specific thing, your just using more of it. Likewise, I'd dispense with the need for things like patterns and molds... they are (really) just a game way of limiting you. You don't smith a sword from a mold (Unless you want it to snap on you), or armour or anything, and a halfway decent tailor doesn't need a patern to make a shirt.

I was just saying this is what is in the game and wondering if maybe they were going to do the same in the EQrpg.

Don't attack me and claim I was doing things I wasn't, k?

Sorry but my attack was not meant to be offensive just show you that your opinion and mine were different.

Frankly? Yes, in this case I am going to be that presumptious. I've never met ANYONE who actualy LIKED the EQ tradeskill system. Ever. A few people could tollerate it, but most everyone I know both IRL and IG agrees that the EQ system was basicly just designed to limit your rate of advancement.

Now I understand why you are offended by my posts ..it is that ..maybe I do like the way they do the tradeskills and enjoy making things myself and you are offended by the time it takes away from your leveling. The last comment is not a flame just a comment on what your posts have stated. I started this thread to get opinions on what people think EQrpg designers are going to do (since the Gmg is not due out till December), not to get your opinion that just because you have played forever and have all tradeskills to 200, that it should be the way YOU percieve tradeskills should be done. of course, you could be right and they do it the way you think.