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Everyone starts at 1st level

Now, to address the OP. :)

Thank you!! :D

What I propose is a static amount of HP, equal to CON or any multiple (but likely no more than 3) and that's it - no more HP increases per level. The character's abilities et al improve, but HP remains static.

I'm not quite making it that static, but certainly, the number of hit points that a character gets over time will be MUCH lower than in previous editions. A maxed out 10th level dwarven fighter might have 86 hit points IF he rolls maximum on the d10 EVERY TIME he gets to roll, has a maxed out con and maxes out Toughness, as well. The same character at first level would have 23 hp. So the gap, while present, is hardly the huge thing it is presently or in any previous edition of dnd.

I'll report back once we've tested more.
 

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The three-headed ankylosaur?

Yeah. I like my group: they can turn an odd and potentially deadly random encounter (the monster was random; the bricklayers throwing fusilades of bricks at it to drive it back into the water was an elaboration) into an opportunity for social advancement.

I like their initiative. It makes my job easy. :)
 

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4. Sandbox play; practically speaking, this means that low-level pcs can seek out the dragon in the desert if they choose, and it's an adult brown dragon whatever level they are when they choose to challenge it.

I'm not sure why this matters. You could have the monsters be whatever level they are, and let the PC's choose what to pursue or not. That way, it's up to the players what level of challenge they choose -- sometimes, they might want to go below their "max" capability to train up the more junior party members. Othertimes, maybe not.

Part of the fun of playing in a non-level appropriate world is that there's real mystery about what you're facing, and danger.
 

To the people arguing realism for a 1st level character joining the party:
Green soldiers were joining the fight because there were no more veterans.

"The people" would be me. Just one people here, so likely a very small minority view you probably don't need to worry about.

Anyhow, it's true, of course, that there were many veterans in World War II. The trouble is, the veterans already had assignments. Going back to my example of reinforcing the 82nd Airborne after D-Day, the actual choice was to use newly trained green paratroopers; your alternative could have been done, using only veteran Airborne troopers, but you'd need to cannibalize the 101st, or use British/Canadian/Polish or Para-Marines from the Pacific campaign. It could be done, but it wasn't an efficient choice, given the limited supply and the fact that the supply was already allocated.

My point is, you don't need to assume "absolute unavailability, anywhere in the world" to create the real world situation -- actual history -- that military replacements for combat losses are almost always green.

If you accept a parallel between D&D parties and military units in replacing combat loses, green replacements is the historically accurate "realistic" way to go.

If you don't accept the parallel, OK then.

If there're numerous level 2, level 3, level 4 people out there; too many to even notice all of them,

Nod, you've realized there's an assumption built into the "bring in experience PC's" mindset -- namely that PC's are a dime a dozen, not special. Like truck drivers with CDL's who are looking for some hours, not Harry Potter and Aragorn or any other "special" hero.

why not let someone start off at level 4? (or 1/2 the party level (whichever is lower, if you want to be harsh))

A) I don't like the campaign feel, because it assumes PC's are unimportant and not special. To use your words, "too many to even notice".

B) I don't like the narrative feel. You're short-circuiting the hero's journey to jump to the superpowered bits. Luke Skywalker is less interesting if he is introduced as a full Jedi destroyer of all who stand before. And a lot of high level replacements begins to feel like the party is a temp agency, rather than a band of heroes.

C) Cheapens experience of the other players, and cheapens the value of PC life. I like the idea that everyone has to pay their dues, and any experienced character is important and worth keeping around, rather than disposable whenever you get a new build idea.


It makes the first session slightly less of an exercise in futility. And it's much more realistic.

1/2 level actually makes a lot of sense. If your party is level 20, even if there're only 300 level 10 adventurers in the whole world, they'll ALL want to learn from you. If you're level 10, recruiting someone level 5 is easy. And it lets the player come up with their own story, rather than needing an excuse for the party to let them join.

Yeah, that does make sense. I'm not used to thinking about high levels. The "supers" feel and the accounting drag of all the rules bores me and my friends, so we've never played higher than about 12th.
 

I'd have to give this type of game a resounding "meh". If I had to play that lowbie, I'd get annoyed very quickly unless I had some cool artifact that made me viable in combat. I don't like playing commoners in a heroes game. It's just not my thing. On top of that, if you have to retool the entire system to make level 10 guys only slightly better than level 1 guys...what the heck is the point!? Just play RAW and keep people within 1-2 levels of each other. Same effect with four hundred thousand times less work.
 

I'd have to give this type of game a resounding "meh". If I had to play that lowbie, I'd get annoyed very quickly unless I had some cool artifact that made me viable in combat. I don't like playing commoners in a heroes game. It's just not my thing. On top of that, if you have to retool the entire system to make level 10 guys only slightly better than level 1 guys...what the heck is the point!? Just play RAW and keep people within 1-2 levels of each other. Same effect with four hundred thousand times less work.

I agree with you. From my perspective D&D is a team game of players with characters with near equal power with different things they can do.

I don't believe I'd make it beyond the first week of that lowbie game. I'd get bored as one of the more powerful characters, and frustrated as the lightweight.
 

I'd have to give this type of game a resounding "meh". If I had to play that lowbie, I'd get annoyed very quickly unless I had some cool artifact that made me viable in combat.

What if you were viable in combat without a cool artifact?


I don't like playing commoners in a heroes game. It's just not my thing. On top of that, if you have to retool the entire system to make level 10 guys only slightly better than level 1 guys...what the heck is the point!? Just play RAW and keep people within 1-2 levels of each other. Same effect with four hundred thousand times less work.

Because it's not even close to the same effect.

Besides that, this is just one goal of several in the work I'm doing for this variant.
 

In 4e:

1st level: AC: 12 - 22, HP: 15 - 35, Att: +1 - +8, Dam: 4 - 10
20th level: AC: 28 - 38, HP: 125 - 175, Att: +16 - +28, Dam: 25 - 35

These scale real nice at the same level, but don't play so well across each other. At the same level, you hit about 50%, for 3 - 7 hits. At 1st to 20th you hit only on a 20, and it would take 20+ hits.

In 1e:

1st level: AC: 10 - 18, HP: 1 - 14, Att: +0 - +5, Dam: 3 - 18
12th level: AC: 20 - 30, HP: 30 - 90, Att: +6 - +18, Dam: 3 - 36

In this instance, at the same level, you can hit on a 12 or higher, and you can take about one hit at 1st, and at 12th level you can take 3 average hits. From 1st against 12th, it still requires a 20 to hit (on average), and the damage dealt would require six successful hits.

In another game like Rolemaster, there is the same reality of defense bonus and high armor type negating almost all damage. There is, however, a 4% chance that you can roll open-ended, get lucky, and "max out" against any level and any armor type with a critical hit. It is significantly less likely, and there are far better resources to deal with it, but that chance still provides for interesting gameplay.

My recommended soluiton would be to tweak the first level characters to be able to hit around 10% to 30% of the time, but only do enough damage that it will take about triple the hits than normal. A simple means to do this would be to provide some sweet magic items, powers, or abilities that would get them up to this bonus to hit. So, in 4e for example, you'd have to get that bonus to hit, up into the +20 attack and damage range. That's one hell of an artifact!
 
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In 4e:

1st level: AC: 12 - 22, HP: 15 - 35, Att: +1 - +8, Dam: 4 - 10
20th level: AC: 28 - 38, HP: 125 - 175, Att: +16 - +28, Dam: 25 - 35

This is what my first level character looked like at first level:

AC: 12 - 22 [11]
HP: 15 - 35 [14]
Att: +1 - +8 [-1]
Dam: 4 - 10 [-1]
 

Into the Woods

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