Evil Heroes, Here we go!

[gdmcbride]

Ramaster,

Glad you approve of this advice.

Have you read the longer essay in "Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns"? I was wondering if you have any commentary about that?

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

 

[Hedam]

I would like to point out that evil doesnt mean sadistic, or masochistic, or any other illness..
I like to point out to my players sometimes, yeah you can take him, but do you really fancy shiny new stab-wound? Even though the players cant feel the pain, its important to the game that the character act like they do..

Also that Neutral Evil isnt reserved for sociopaths, the neutral evil Rogue can also see the value in friends, and is even capable of trust and love, he may reserve this for only the closest, few are truly alone.. Joker (Chaotic Evil) Has Harlequinn.. Batman (Neutral Evil) has Robin, so on and so forth..

Player dynamics ar best when they argue and fight a bit, but it never gets lethal.. So as Gary Suggested i used the Evil Boss, a rich aristocrat representing hell and their interest.. Though the anti-paladin in the group still channels negative energy without regard for the team-mates, even doing it if he needs to get rid of bedbugs The Barbarian charging at a merchant overpricing his goods.. But in the end of the day when the Anti-paldin was thrown at the Colossal Wyvern, stabbing it to death 400 ft in the air, as he plummeted to his death the other players rushed to his aid, filling him with all the healing potions they could muster, just for the off chance it would work..

I agree with Gary that some tasteless evil acts should be ignored, or avoided, though its important to know this border, as the gore and maybe more mature subjects is what the group is seeking.. It could be as simple a describing the barbarians attack "He swings his axe, imbedding it into his foot, Ragnar proceeds to grab the puny human by the neck, gouging his eyes with the other".. With the introduction of Eremites, and kytons, Dnd, pathfinder and fantasy gaming really began opening up to some really gory stuff..

Evil is too active it can be hard to keep up with players, so i keep the storyline loose, and keep a buttload of encounters ready..

And i would like to say thanks to everyone for giving me a helping hand, we really got a fun campaign going!

 

[Ramaster]

Ramaster,

Glad you approve of this advice.

Have you read the longer essay in "Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns"? I was wondering if you have any commentary about that?

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

I have not. I do not own nor have access to Way of the Wicked, my knowledge of the book simply comes from the product description and (mainly) the multiple discussions here in the forum.

From what I've heard, the adventure starts off sandboxy and then narrows down a little bit. This seems like a good approach, first you let the players take the initiative and act on their evil impulses. After all, they DID choose to play an evil campaign.

But later on, when the plot evolves, "going sandbox" becomes less important, since more pressing matters would have presented themselves and the campaign takes a more traditional tone in structure (I mean, once the "novelty" of evilness wears off a little bit), thus allowing you to explore other facets of the psychology of an evil character and the repercussions of their actions.

Is there somewhere I can get the essay you are referring to?

 

[The Red King]

I am currently running an Evil Campaign. We have had several team members die, either due to duels, or other fights. Usually they do work together, but I feel like it is too open. I have thrown a group of adventurers at them, and even let one party member try to destroy the world and make the rest of the party his pets. If your group does not have enough push to go be evil.... My group wants to turtle and count their gold.... then you have to have the good come to them.

 

[gdmcbride]

I have not. I do not own nor have access to Way of the Wicked, my knowledge of the book simply comes from the product description and (mainly) the multiple discussions here in the forum.

From what I've heard, the adventure starts off sandboxy and then narrows down a little bit. This seems like a good approach, first you let the players take the initiative and act on their evil impulses. After all, they DID choose to play an evil campaign.

"Way of the Wicked" begins with a prison break which is very open ended and then

Spoiler

the PCs are inducted to an evil organization serving Asmodeus. Yes, at that point they do receive missions. But how they accomplish the missions are very much up to them. For example, the final (and largest) act of Book One is the PCs being told to destroy a watchtower held by the forces of good. How should they infiltrate and destroy it? Well, we suggest possibilities, but ultimately the choice is up to them.

In Book Two, the PCs are told to defend their own dungeon for 222 days. That's their mission. But how do they accomplish that mission? That we leave totally open to the PCs.

Is there somewhere I can get the essay you are referring to?

The only place the full essay is available is in the ENnie award nominated "Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns" for sale at DriveThruRPG and Paizo.com. How was that for a plug?

But to quickly summarize its points, the essay identifies five pitfalls to evil games and tries to address how to deal with them concretely and definitively. In order:

Pitfall #1 : The proactive nature of evil
Pitfall #2 : Over-reliance upon minions
Pitfall #3 : Finding a method to unify a group of villains
Pitfall #4 : Dealing with touchy subjects such as torture or abuse
Pitfall #5 : Overcoming the banality of evil

The essay itself is only two pages of a 100 page book. The rest of the book (and the adventure path) is my attempt to implement my own advice in a fully realized level 1-20 evil adventure path.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

 

[Hedam]

I am currently running an Evil Campaign. We have had several team members die, either due to duels, or other fights. Usually they do work together, but I feel like it is too open. I have thrown a group of adventurers at them, and even let one party member try to destroy the world and make the rest of the party his pets. If your group does not have enough push to go be evil.... My group wants to turtle and count their gold.... then you have to have the good come to them.

My advice is to only keep things truly sandbox for a session or 2.. Throw alot of stuff at them and se what they react to, and then go down that path.. Maybe they angered a sheriff or a bishop, giving rise to epic rivalry.. While generating treasure the dice turns lucky and the players get their hands on a +4 greatsword, turn it into a tale of this mystery greatsword noone truly can figure out what does.. Its the small stuff that gives rise to the greatest games, investing the characters in things they deem interesting..

Also some ways to see if the players are uninvested

1: One or more players reading dillegently through the whole session

2: Reoccurring off-game chatter

3: People dont know where they are, or who they are talking to

4: Players not seeking to further their characters interests

If any of above are happening, spice it up.. Keep it unexpected.. But keep to the plan..

Also at every important event, ask yourself, what do i want the players to feel.. Disgust, fear, pride.. Try to evoke these feelings in the scene.. Make the necromancer someone disgusting, and make him so through his choice of words, his demands, and his actions.. This makes my players much more invested