Evoker (Prohibited school Divination) goes Divine Oracle?

[Bouncer]

Hi,

If an Evoker level 7 with prohibited school of Divination chooses to become a Divine Oracle (DoF) as level 8, he receives the prestige domain of Divination. Lets talk about identify spell which is the first domain spell in the list:

1) Could he cast identify spell in spite of it being from his prohibited school? I say yes because he receives it as a divine spell but casts it as an arcane spell.

2) Which level will this identify spell would be cast by the Evoker? I say level 10 (+2 divination domain +8 caster level).

3)All domain spells are copied for free to his spell book even if he only takes 1 level in Divine Oracle prestige class and he can cast them later when his caster level increases? I say yes.

Please confirm

 

[the Jester]

Hmm, good question...

I don't know if there's an official ruling on this situation anywhere, but I'd look long and hard before letting the character get away with ignoring his prohibited school like that....

 

[Caliban]

Hi,

If an Evoker level 7 with prohibited school of Divination chooses to become a Divine Oracle (DoF) as level 8, he receives the prestige domain of Divination.

As a GM, I probably wouldn't allow him to take the class, as the prestige class and his specialty conflict.

Lets talk about identify spell which is the first domain spell in the list:

1) Could he cast identify spell in spite of it being from his prohibited school? I say yes because he receives it as a divine spell but casts it as an arcane spell.

Technically, I suppose he could.

2) Which level will this identify spell would be cast by the Evoker? I say level 10 (+2 divination domain +8 caster level).

His Evoker levels cannot be used for divination spells at all, no divination spell is on his spell list as an evoker, he only gets his Divine Oracle caster levels for those.

Thus, he would be caster level 3 for Divination spells if he has one level of divine oracle.

3)All domain spells are copied for free to his spell book even if he only takes 1 level in Divine Oracle prestige class and he can cast them later when his caster level increases? I say yes.

Please confirm

I would say that he only gains the domain spells in his spellbook up to the level he can cast. When he takes his first level of Divine Oracle he get's all the domain spells up to his current caster level, and he would have to take more divine oracle levels to get the rest of them.

 

[Camarath]

1) no he does not gain divine spell casting he advances as an arcane caster (wizard)

2) he does not have domain spells so he can not cast the spell

3) he would gain the spells in his spell book but could never cast them as a wizard

 

[Cygnus]

I would say that:

1) As long as the Evoker with no divination spells meets the requirements of 10 ranks of Scry and Skill Focus (Scry), then s/he should be allowed the PrC. But unless s/he first takes a level of Cleric, s/he will not be able to cast any of the new spells because the +1 caster level would be for Evoker (no div.). S/he gains access to the Divination domain, but without the ability to cast as a divine caster, s/he must cast them as if they were arcane spells, which his/her specialty forbids.

2) moot unless 1 level of Cleric is taken, then it would be the efective divine caster level.

3) dito

Edit (omitted word)

 

[Bouncer]

I'm not conviced that this combination is unfavourable for this Evoker!

Lets look at official FAQ from Dof page 2:

[snip A]
An Arcane spellcaster who gains access to spells in a prestige domain can cast those spells as arcane spells, but they are still divine spells as far as the rest of multiverse is concerned.

An arcane caster with access to a prestige domain could use spell trigger items that use spells on the prestige domain list, but he could not read divine scrolls with those spells on them. If an arcane spell caster put a prestige domain spell on a scroll, it would be an arcane scroll and only another arcane spell caster with access to that domain could use the scroll.

Sorcerers and bards who gain access to a prestige domain add the domain spells to the list of spells they know and wizards who gain access to a prestige domain add the spells to their spell book.
[end snip A]

and Dof page 77.
[snip B]
If Kharid, a 10th level sorcerer, gained a level in the sacred exorcist prestige class, he would also gain the granted power of excorcism domain... He would have the spellcasting ability of an 11th level sorceror... The excorcism domain spells of level 1 through 5 would be added to his spells known...
[end snip B]

Cygnus + Camarath
Wouldn't you agree that your reasoning collides with [snip A]?

Caliban
Interesting point in your reasoning for question 2. However, the same reasoning could apply to a wizard or a sorceror who has no divination spells in his spell reportoire. The FAQ really confuses me because it tells nothing about the caster level for arcane casters envoking domain spells. Let's turn the table. What if evoker had not divination as a prohibited school. His caster level for divination spells would be 10. Being prohibited as Arcane caster should not prohibit him when he casts domain spells, should it?

Jester
It's all about exploring the unknown

Any further thougths?

Thanks
Bouncer

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I really don't think that's the best combination of classes.

"No, I cannot commune with supernatural beings. But I could gate to their home planes and blast them until they talk!"

Evokers aren't the most thoughtful and introverted of mages.

 

[Caliban]

Caliban
Interesting point in your reasoning for question 2. However, the same reasoning could apply to a wizard or a sorceror who has no divination spells in his spell reportoire.

Not at all. A regular wizard or sorcerer still has divination spells on their class spell list, even if they don't currently use any.

An Evoker with the banned school of Divination doesn't have access to any divination spells through his wizard levels. They aren't on his class spell list, and he can't activate scrolls or wands with divination spells.

Only his Divine Oracle levels would could for determining his effective caster level when it comes to Divination spells, because that's his only class that gives him access to them.

The FAQ really confuses me because it tells nothing about the caster level for arcane casters envoking domain spells.

It would normally be his wizard caster level + his Divine oracle caster level, since both classes have access to Divination spells.

An Evoker with a barred school of Divination is not normal.

Let's turn the table. What if evoker had not divination as a prohibited school. His caster level for divination spells would be 10.

Yes.

Being prohibited as Arcane caster should not prohibit him when he casts domain spells, should it?

It won't prohibit him, but it won't help him either. His Evoker levels simply don't count when it comes to preparing or casting Divination spells.

Meaning: If he has 1 level of Divine Oracle, he can only learn and prepare the 1st level domain spell (because he is only caster level 1 when it comes to Divination spells), and he is effectively caster level 3 when casting his domain spells (because of the +2 level boost the prestige domain gives him when casting).

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Wow, Caliban, we posted almost simultaneously. The browser brought me back after I postet and there was your post under mine.

But back to the regular program...

 

[Camarath]

Bouncer

[snip A] does not address the fact that as a wizards you are expressly forbidden form casting Divination spells or using spell completion items. Futher more it supports my assertion that you gain no divine spell casting ablity since it specifies you gain them as arcane spells. The spells are divine but your ablity to cast them is arcane. Thus since nothing expressly over rides your inablity to cast Divination as a wizard you can not do so.

[snip B] so what does that have to do with your wizard? Did the sorcerer have a limiation perventing from using those spell if they had been on his spell list? No, those spells were added to his spell list and his know spells thus he can cast them. The Evoker can't because he can't cast Divination spells as a wizard ever under any circumstances. As far as his ablity to cast spells as a wizard is concerned those spell do not exist.

You must take another caster class to ever be able to cast those spells. Divine Oracle does not give you a new spell casting class it increases the ablity of one you already had.