Evoker (Prohibited school Divination) goes Divine Oracle?

[Cygnus]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nope.

Hmm... You may be right. I agree that the wizards normal spell slots cannot be used to prepare spells from barred schools.

I was under the impression that the wizard would gain an extra set of domain spell slots (similar to a cleric) when gaining access to the prestige domain. If so, he would be able to prepare the domain spells in these slots (only). If not, then he would be unable to prepare them because he doesn't have any spell slots he can legally prepare them in.

DotF

(DO)

Upon adopting the divine oracle class, the character gains access to the Divination domain, described in Chapter 4: Divine Magic. The character gains the granted power associated with the domain (+2 caster level for divination spells), and can choose the spells in that domain as her daily domain spells.

(Ch4 Divine Magic, Prestige Domains)

If she is a divine spellcaster (a paladin, ranger, or druid), each day she can cast one extra spell of each spell level to which she normally has access, which must be the spell from the prestige domain for that level. If she is an arcane spellcaster (wizard, sorcerer, or bard), the domain spells are added to her spells known—scribed in a wizard's spellbook, or added to a sorcerer or bard's list of known spells, in addition to the character's normal number....

...If Kharid, a 10th-level sorcerer, gained a level in the sacred exorcist prestige class, he would also gain the granted power of the Exorcism domain, enabling him to force possessing spirits out of the bodies they inahbit. He would have the spellcasting ability of an 11th-level sorcerer, so he could cast six spells per day of levels 0 through 4, plus four 5th-level spells (in addition to his bonus spells for high Charisma). The Exorcism domain spells of levels 1 through 5 would be added to his spells known, so he would know a total of nine 0-level spells, six 1st-level (including protection from evil), six 2nd-level (including magic circle against evil), five 3rd-level (including remove curse), four 4th-level (including dismissal), and three 5th-level spells (including dispel evil). Thus, he could cast dismissal either as a 4th-level spell (as his domain spell) or as a 5th-level spell (as an ordinary sorcerer spell).

It would seem, from the combination of these excerpts, that the arcane caster must put them in her/his spell book and cast them as part of the regular daily alotment.

 

[Cygnus]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nope.

But what about my NG cleric who takes the death domain, can I cast the [Evil] description spells in my domain list even though as a good cleric I would normaly be unable to cast [Evil] spells?

I would say that you could cast them but wouldn't, and if you did there would probably be some sort of atonement required depending on the deity involved.

 

[Caliban]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nope.

Wizards do not get domain spells in their spell progression and no addtional spell progression is outlined in the rules. If domains themselves give spell slot then I am wrong and he can use his Domain slot for those spells. But, I have never seen any rule giving arcane casters domain spell slots when they gain domains.

Your right, I was mistaken about the wizard gaining domain slots when they gain the prestige domain. He wouldn't be able to cast most of the domain spells, since he can't prepare divination spells in his wizard spell slots.

It is a good point about the differance between inablity to perform an action and oaths forbidding an action. But what about my NG cleric who takes the death domain, can I cast the [Evil] description spells in my domain list even though as a good cleric I would normaly be unable to cast [Evil] spells?

In this instance, there is a clear rule on page 32 of the PHB: "A cleric can't cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or to his deity's."

You may have [Evil] spells in your domain, and your deity may not have a problem with you casting them, but the PHB decrees that you will find yourself unable to prepare them, because it is opposed to your own alignment.

A wizard or sorcerer would be able to do so, but could find his alignment drifting towards Neutral/Evil/Ect. if he makes a practice of it.

Same thing with Evil clerics or wizards using [Good] spells. Using morally aligned magic marks your soul...

 

[Dimwhit]

I don't know what the official rule would be. But I see prohibited schools of magic much like restrictions on other classes. I have an Evoker with Enchantment and Abjuration as prohibited schools. I don't think I should ever have access to those schools of magic, even if it's through a PrC. It's prohibited, much like being non-lawful is prohibited for Monks and Druids must have some neutral in their alignment. If you break it, you lose it. As a GM, I would treat prohibited schools the same way.

 

[Cygnus]

Now we just need Bouncer to read this far down the thread.

 

[Dimwhit]

Now we just need Bouncer to read this far down the thread.

Yep. And I kind of skimmed through the posts the first time. I went back and looked more closely at his second post.

Being prohibited as Arcane caster should not prohibit him when he casts domain spells, should it?

If the domain spell is the same school of magic as his prohibited school, then yes. Schools of magic are schools of magic. Whether it's arcane or divine, it's still the same school of magic. If a Wizard is prohibited from using Divination, it shouldn't matter which method he uses to cast the divination (arcane or divine). As for caster level, I would say the levels should stack if there is no prohibited school involved. But if there is a prohibited school involved, then the character shouldn't be able to cast the spell, even from a PrC.

Not that my ruling is official or anything.

 

[Camarath]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nope.

In this instance, there is a clear rule on page 32 of the PHB: "A cleric can't cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or to his deity's."

You may have [Evil] spells in your domain, and your deity may not have a problem with you casting them, but the PHB decrees that you will find yourself unable to prepare them, because it is opposed to your own alignment.
[/B]

I know it was supposed to the another exmple after my failed Scared Fist analogy, but I guess I did not make it clear. I thought it was the closest parallel to the situation we had been discussing i could find.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nope.

I know it was supposed to the another exmple after my failed Scared Fist analogy, but I guess I did not make it clear.

A tap on Camarath's shoulder; turning, he sees a bare-chested man glaring at him. The man's raises his hand; his eyes glitter dangerously, and the hand is suddenly wreathed in fire.

"Call me a 'Scared Fist' again," he grates, "and I'll shove my Sacred Flame somewhere very unpleasant..."

-Hyp.

 

[Camarath]

hehehe sorry accused spelling always getting me into trouble

edit: grammar and typos too!

 

[Sejs]

An arcane caster gaining access to a prestige domain via a PrC has the spells added to his spellbook or spells known. This has been discussed a whole bunch above.

Okay, you added the domain spells to your spellbook.
From the Divination Domain.
All of which are Divination school spells.
And you can't cast Divination spells because of your specialty.
So no domain spells for you.

The other class abilities arn't divination spells, however - and if he wants to blow a feat and 10 skill ranks for something he would never otherwise get to use (scry-10 and skill focus-scry, but can never cast the scry spell) he can get access to the class.

Personally, however as a DM I'd say "Sorry, no" because of the little snipped in the Divine Oracle description...

All divine oracles are spellcasters and most were clerics or druids before adopting the divine oracle prestige class. Whatever their other class, all divine oracles share a particular devotion to the Divination school of magic, having mastered all available means to catch glimpses of the future.

.. which, to me says a character who cannot cast divination spells, and a prc that is focused around the divination school would have a bit of a conflict of interest.