Exalted Pickle

[DragonLancer]

"A good X is a dead X" doesn't really wash for exalted characters, though, unless perhaps X is something that is, by its very nature, evil (demons, devils, undead). Most mortal creatures, and especially humanoid-type creatures are not kill-on-sight evil, even in a standard D&D campaign (trolls are only "usually" evil, for example). In Eberron, this is even more true.

Maybe but I still wouldn't punish them for this. Exalted doesn't mean that we should fall back on the old Lawful Stupid arguments.

Perhaps the thing to do is stage a scene where the trolls are fighting off the undead. Give the players a moments pause to wonder whether this is just infighting, or whether they have potential allies here afterall.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

NOT !

Unless you have firmly established either the history / knowledge or precedent that some typically evil creatures within yoru campaign CAN be good, or at least neutral-ish, the proper frame of reference for the characters is "Troll, even enslaved, and then freed = trouble" leading into "a good troll is a dead troll".

Also another point : if deities were so keen on removing feats, spells, and actively applying penalties to their servants, wouldn't it make sense to ALSO send a minor pang of guilt or use a similar device BEFORE events take place?

That's why paladins can detect evil. That's why detect evil is a first level cleric spell. Especially in the case of the paladin, his god probably should punish him..."umm, I gave you the ability to detect evil for a reason. Try using it next time..."

EDIT: I keep saying paladin, but I'm talking about the Slayer of Domiel character, who can detect evil as a paladin, which I assume means "at will." There's no real excuse for that character not using that ability, in my opinion. This example is illustration as to why such characters have that ability in the first place. Even if they assume the trolls are neutral but potentially hostile, the fact that the trolls fell back and didn't fight back should have given them pause.

 

[Someone]

I agree; make sure the PCs discover that not all trolls are evil, and then watch how they react when they learn that they maybe killed innocent trolls. Exalted doesn´t mean omniscient.

 

[Arnwyn]

"A good X is a dead X" doesn't really wash for exalted characters, though, unless perhaps X is something that is, by its very nature, evil (demons, devils, undead).

Agreed. I can't give any suggestions to the OP for is campaign (it's his campaign, after all, and I don't know the assumptions that everyone is working under), but the exalted characters would certainly be atoning in my game.

 

[VirgilCaine]

"A good X is a dead X" doesn't really wash for exalted characters, though, unless perhaps X is something that is, by its very nature, evil (demons, devils, undead). Most mortal creatures, and especially humanoid-type creatures are not kill-on-sight evil, even in a standard D&D campaign (trolls are only "usually" evil, for example). In Eberron, this is even more true.

Yeah, Green Skin = Dead thing doesn't wash in 3e in general.

I'd say that these Exalted characters should definitely be plagued with bad dreams and when they refresh their spell slots, a few choices will be made for them--"All you have prepared in your 1st level slots are Detect Evil. All your 2nd level slots are Augury."

 

[blargney the second]

I think the trouble lies in the fact that the solutions as presented are boolean. A sliding scale solution would be to go with the nasty nightmares idea and give them a morale penalty to their primary schtick (attack + damage, spell DC + damage, etc) for the next little while. End it and the nightmares when they do something commensurately good to compensate for their misdemeanour.

 

[Spatula]

I think the trouble lies in the fact that the solutions as presented are boolean.

Aye, and that's why I was looking for some advice. And taking away their feats would hurt the VoP character a lot, mid-adventure, which would grind things to a halt (or cripple the party in the final encounter).

Anyway, you guys have given me some good ideas for "lesser" punishments. Thanks!

 

[VirgilCaine]

End it and the nightmares when they do something ommensurately good to compensate for their misdemeanour.

I disagree--the players/PCs should be made to understand why their powers were lessened.

 

[airwalkrr]

It seems like this is an Eberron campaign, so you have to take the Eberron world into account here. To me, it doesn't seem like the Eberron deities are all too active in the world. They are somewhat like the GH deities in that they prefer to stay out of mortal affairs and let mortals be their voices on the Prime Material. That said, I don't think they would strike their followers with pangs of guilt or warn them or anything like that. I think they would simply remove their exalted abilities and let the PCs piece out the reason for themselves. If they are smart, they will seek church elders and ask them to help figure out why they have lost their abilities; in this case a DM hint might be appropriate, depending on your players.

One thing is for certain, if your PCs get punished for a morally questionable action like this once, they are much less likely to do it again.

Of course, these things are always sticky situations, because it is never fun to lose character abilities, and yet the game is supposed to be about fun right? Personally, I never allow roleplaying schticks that require a moral code to be followed (like clerics, paladins, and druids) unless the player is mature enough to recognize that roleplaying penalties are part of the game. These are usually the players who are mature enough to understand how to effectively play such a character, and when they forfeit their powers, it is usually a calculated decision and they realize what they are doing.

Your players might not be heavy into roleplaying. If they aren't, then I recommend simply being light on the punishments. In this case, an out-of-character warning is probably best. Players like this probably appreciate the tactical aspect of the game more than the story and the roleplaying (there is nothing wrong with that of course; I don't intend to sound patronizing) and being punished in this respect would simply be counter-intuitive to them. An appropriate warning before continuing is probably the best approach in this case. But if your players are mature roleplayers who recognize that roleplaying is one of the bigger challenges of the game, not just the number-crunching, then they will actually appreciate it when you enforce the roleplaying restrictions.

 

[Wik]

Personally, I like the idea of "all your first level slots are not Detect Evil" - I thought that was a cute idea.

Dreams are a nice way of doing things, but I think a direct encounter where these Cave Trolls are fighting the undead would be a nice way of saying "you screwed up" to the PCs. And then, if you can, throw a scene where the PCs are being attacked by Undead, and the Cave Trolls come in for a rescue, until one of the Heavily burned Cave Trolls that escaped somehow says "hey, those were the guys that blasted us!" and the cavalry turns away to leave.

I thought it was pretty funny how your barbarian picked up on the fact that they weren't hostile. Using just that information, I think the Exalted PCs should be somehow be punished.