Excerpt: Archons (merged)

[Ten]

That's not the point at all - we I'm not complaining about the lack of Archons, I'm worried that WotC is deliberately gimping this Monster Manual to make space for the next ones. To me the first Monster Manual should be generalized, including every monster spectrum, rather than being fit to a single or several themes.

It's not just this reveal, either. A lot of things seem to point to WotC using this (bad, imo) philosophy. Reusing Orcus's art on a full page AND the cover, for instance.

This viewpoint seems to be prevalent, and I can't help but to disagree with it. To me, it is a matter of Occam's Razor. Rather than some insidious plot to relieve fools from their money by deliberately removing monsters from the monster manual for use later...I find it much more simple and much more likely that there were a crapload of monsters, including iconic ones from decades of game history, cool ones they felt needed a time to get in the spotlight, and new ones they wanted to throw out to try the waters, and they had to draw the line somewhere. Where they drew the line is arbitrary in the end, the point being that they chose a certain book length, filled it with monsters, and then stopped adding more monsters.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

We're did you see all that in KotS. I'm assuming not on that page of conditions 'cause I'm looking at it now and it only says that your speed becomes 2 and then goes on to explain that, yes, they really mean 2.

On page 12, at top of the page under Difficult Terrain it states:


Rubble, undergrowth... It costs 1 additional square of movement to enter a square of difficult terrain. If you don't have enough movement remaining, you can't enter a square of difficult terrain. You can't shift into a square of difficult terrain unless you have a power to do so.

 

[small pumpkin man]

That's not the point at all - we I'm not complaining about the lack of Archons, I'm worried that WotC is deliberately gimping this Monster Manual to make space for the next ones. To me the first Monster Manual should be generalized, including every monster spectrum, rather than being fit to a single or several themes.

It's not just this reveal, either. A lot of things seem to point to WotC using this (bad, imo) philosophy. Reusing Orcus's art on a full page AND the cover, for instance.

I agree with the idea that "gimping" the first MM would/is a bad idea. What I get annoyed by are the examples that get thrown around. If you have Ice Archons, a Fire Archons, a Fire Giants and Stone Giants, I don't see how the lack of Earth Archons or Ice Giants is such a big deal, in fact I see it as an efficiant choce of space use. I was also irritated by the Orcus thing, and by the complete lack of Metalic Dragons(since space is a problem, I would have gone with just the Gold for tradition), but to me this and other complaints sound like the people complaining about the lack of water Magi in MM5, which was just unneccessary completionism.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Rubble, undergrowth... It costs 1 additional square of movement to enter a square of difficult terrain. If you don't have enough movement remaining, you can't enter a square of difficult terrain. You can't shift into a square of difficult terrain unless you have a power to do so.

I thought you were talking about not being able to shift while slowed. I get that you can't shift into difficult terrain. That's why the elf's got a power that says he can.

As far as gimping the MM goes, I think it's all about what's IN the first MM not what's NOT in it. If it's got enough great stuff (and I bet it does), I for one can wait for more. Well, I can't wait but you know what I mean.

Fitz

 

[tenken]

A shift is the 4e equivalent of a 5' step.

If you do NOT shift when you move, you incur an opportunity attack.

Not quite from what I understand. It's an entire move action now, isn't it? The infamous 5' step was part of another action, yes? (It's been a while.)

 

[AllisterH]

If I understand correctly, the MM has six archons in the books, 3 for fire and 3 for ice. Seems like a reasonable amount as I rather get more monsters than archons for air and earth.

Something will always be left out of a Monster manual.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I thought you were talking about not being able to shift while slowed. I get that you can't shift into difficult terrain. That's why the elf's got a power that says he can.

Oh no, I meant simply you know you can't do it anyways if your trying to shift into difficult terrain.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

I agree with you, this concerns me.



That's not the point at all - we I'm not complaining about the lack of Archons, I'm worried that WotC is deliberately gimping this Monster Manual to make space for the next ones. To me the first Monster Manual should be generalized, including every monster spectrum, rather than being fit to a single or several themes.

It's not just this reveal, either. A lot of things seem to point to WotC using this (bad, imo) philosophy. Reusing Orcus's art on a full page AND the cover, for instance.

Does 288 and 300 (heck, even call it 200 assuming they count two orcs as separate monsters, etc.) monsters for $25 sound like a gimped product? Seriously, if you are going to judge something, judge the entire product.

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

It looks like Elves are very good at fighting Ice Archons.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Does 288 and 300 (heck, even call it 200 assuming they count two orcs as separate monsters, etc.) monsters for $25 sound like a gimped product? Seriously, if you are going to judge something, judge the entire product.

I don't think the argument is over how many monsters are in it so much as it is that it almost NECCESITATES you buying a second book.