Excerpt: Economies [merged]

[marune]

Farmer: Nature

Cobbler: Thievery (good with your hands)

My point was that we don't need these "profession" skills in D&D, because the skill system purpose is limited to the resolution of challenging encounters.

If a DM wants to decide if Dork has a sucessful farming year, he don't need to roll anything.

BTW, even if I usually don't like detailed skill system, Burning Wheel has one and successfully makes it work (but in this game, skills have another purpose and are used differently).

 

[malraux]

Everything I've seen indicates that magic items in 4e are pretty far from a commodity market. There's no simple +1 sword (which might be the closest thing to a commodity market you'd find). I'll agree that consumable items are effectively a commodity, but not weapons or armor.

 

[Cadfan]

Honestly? It depends on if the villain pre-existed.

Right. But "pre-existed" means "pre-existed in the game," not "pre-existed in my own mind as a DM."

If I've established that the evil blackguard uses a +2 Orc Double Axe (and it just so happens a PC is a half-orc), and then that character dies and is replaced by an elf, the blackguard doesn't get a +2 longbow instead.

Right. But "established" means "established to the players, in the game" not "established in my own mind as a DM."

Make those clarifications, and you and I have the same opinion here. Nobody knows what's in the treasure vault? Then its whatever I need it to be. Nobody knows Suzy the Barkeep's abilities? Then she might be an expert sneak thief on the run from the law. Or not, depends what I need.

I've had a lot of fun with NPCs who wouldn't last five seconds in a straight-up fight, but 4e doesn't have any place for them as mechanically distinct creatures.

This has nothing to do with your ever shifting views on object permanency in an imaginary world. Also, what?

 

[Fallen Seraph]

My point was that we don't need these "profession" skills in D&D, because the skill system purpose is limited to the resolution of challenging encounters.

If a DM wants to decide if Dork has a sucessful farming year, he don't need to roll anything.

Oh I agree, I meant more it is still possible to replicate

 

[marune]

Right. But "pre-existed" means "pre-existed in the game," not "pre-existed in my own mind as a DM."

It's tireless to remind people that nothing exist in the imagined universe until it is shared.

 

[Hussar]

I think we've already established that the markup is NOT fair. As far as markup goes, I think it would be like trading in commodities. You buy one +1 sword for 1000 gp from an adventurer who needs cash, take it down the road and find a guyer who will pay 2000 gp. I'd say 10% is more realistic, but 50% is fine for a seller's market.

50% markup? Are you kidding? Sure, cars go with a small mark-up, but, that's because you sell millions and millions of cars. Take a look at the mark-up on a Ferrari, or a Bugatti Veyron. I'm thinking it's slightly higher than 15%.

You are mixing your comparisons Pawsplay. Cars are typically mass produced and thus enjoy economies of scale. The only way magic items would resemble cars is if you had magic factories.

A much better comparison is perfume. Perfume easily has 500% mark-ups. Hand made, usually, in small amounts, perfume resembles magic items far more than cars do. ((Note, I am referring to perfume and not eau do toilet))

I'll admit I'm no economist, but, there are LOTS of commodities out there that get 500% mark-ups. Have you been to McDonald's lately? Bought a Coke? 7 cents to pour that coke that you pay a buck and a half for. Or, how about Starbucks coffee? High end food items like sushi or truffles? Many collector items - look at comic books. 500% ROI isn't all that out of line for a number of comics.

 

[Lizard]

I agree, you only need to stat them out as far as they need to be.

But, you see, the way I run things, I never KNOW how far they need to be. That's why I like the completeness of the 3e stat block even for Bubba the dirt farmer -- whatever he ends up doing in the plot, I've got the stats I need. If someone casts bull Strength on him, polymorphs him into a gnoll and then he gets level-draiend by a wight, I can work it all out by finger in the wind if I want or by the rules if I want.

My "adventure notes" are scrawled ideas about some interesting encounters which might happen. I almost never know what's going to happen, who's going to be important, etc. For my last adventure, the Nameless Palace Guard turned out to be the target of some serious bluff/diplomacy (and got a name), the king who was armed and equipped never got to fight (but needed his sense motive), the queen never rolled a die, and the Captain of The Guard who I thought would be a major player never even walked onstage. (Recylce THAT stat block!)

If I knew ahead of time who'd end up being important and who wouldn't, I'd probably love 4e. As it is, "History +19" doesn't help me when the age finds himself rushing through the woods alongside the PCs, dodging arrows.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Does anyone else notice that the tables only go up to 6 member s in the party? WotC - WAKE UP!!! There are parties larger than that out there. Make the tables non-dependent like the good ole' days and gold/encounters to make level - pshaw. There should be no set number of encounters for leveling, set goals yes, set rewards, no.

Stop playing WoW and get a grip on gaming the old fashioned way. It may appeal to younger players with no sense of social, historical or real-world sensibilities, but it looks more and more like I'm pulling my 1E/2E AD&D books out of the closet.

 

[Hussar]

Does anyone else notice that the tables only go up to 6 member s in the party? WotC - WAKE UP!!! There are parties larger than that out there. Make the tables non-dependent like the good ole' days and gold/encounters to make level - pshaw. There should be no set number of encounters for leveling, set goals yes, set rewards, no.

Stop playing WoW and get a grip on gaming the old fashioned way. It may appeal to younger players with no sense of social, historical or real-world sensibilities, but it looks more and more like I'm pulling my 1E/2E AD&D books out of the closet.

Umm, if you can't extrapolate the math from that table, perhaps D&D is not for you.

 

[malraux]

5I'll admit I'm no economist, but, there are LOTS of commodities out there that get 500% mark-ups. Have you been to McDonald's lately? Bought a Coke? 7 cents to pour that coke that you pay a buck and a half for. Or, how about Starbucks coffee? High end food items like sushi or truffles? Many collector items - look at comic books. 500% ROI isn't all that out of line for a number of comics.

Point of order, commodities are items where there's little differentiation in the supply. Sugar from Dominos sugar really isn't different from store sugar. Soda products have variation across the providers (ie coke is different from pepsi from mr pib). Commodities typically have low mark-ups because you have many suppliers and you really don't care from whom you buy. Certainly bespoke items like a +1 flaming warpick are not commodities.