Excerpt: Economies [merged]

[AZRogue]

But, you see, the way I run things, I never KNOW how far they need to be. That's why I like the completeness of the 3e stat block even for Bubba the dirt farmer -- whatever he ends up doing in the plot, I've got the stats I need. If someone casts bull Strength on him, polymorphs him into a gnoll and then he gets level-draiend by a wight, I can work it all out by finger in the wind if I want or by the rules if I want.

My "adventure notes" are scrawled ideas about some interesting encounters which might happen. I almost never know what's going to happen, who's going to be important, etc. For my last adventure, the Nameless Palace Guard turned out to be the target of some serious bluff/diplomacy (and got a name), the king who was armed and equipped never got to fight (but needed his sense motive), the queen never rolled a die, and the Captain of The Guard who I thought would be a major player never even walked onstage. (Recylce THAT stat block!)

If I knew ahead of time who'd end up being important and who wouldn't, I'd probably love 4e. As it is, "History +19" doesn't help me when the age finds himself rushing through the woods alongside the PCs, dodging arrows.

It's going to be a complete shift from what you're probably used to, I agree. Getting rid of the structure for structure's sake is one of the design goals, I believe. Hopefully, though, there will still be enough tools for you to play with that you will be able to adapt or overlook the design paradigm of this edition. I've heard several people say that the new DMG is one of the best ever made, if not the best, so that certainly points to some interesting stuff still to see. I would expect, at a minimum, some healthy sections on designing worlds and cultures that may be what you're looking for. We'll see soon.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

*Snip*

Then fully stat him out, give a scholar weak physical stats and skills, except for things like History (or another field he is knowledgeable in: Religion for example). Don't give him any combat powers, perhaps some utility powers (and if there are "mundane rituals" in the game some of those) and your done.

So you can have a fully stated out character in 4e, that doesn't have to be combat oriented. Or if you just want a quick NPC that is simply walk on role, then you can just stat two, three skills and your done.

It is simply the emphasis in 4e is on "make what you need, not what you don't see".

 

[pawsplay]

I'll admit I'm no economist, but, there are LOTS of commodities out there that get 500% mark-ups. Have you been to McDonald's lately? Bought a Coke? 7 cents to pour that coke that you pay a buck and a half for.

Experience tells me that a middle school football game concession stand can get the same buck fifty for a Coke that McDonald's gets.

 

[pawsplay]

Point of order, commodities are items where there's little differentiation in the supply. Sugar from Dominos sugar really isn't different from store sugar. Soda products have variation across the providers (ie coke is different from pepsi from mr pib). Commodities typically have low mark-ups because you have many suppliers and you really don't care from whom you buy. Certainly bespoke items like a +1 flaming warpick are not commodities.

Soda is manufactured from raw ingredients and marked up. We are talking about buying and selling things which are virtually always acquired used. An archmage can charge a markup on his efforts when he makes a magic sword, but everyone else, it seems to me, is roughly in the same game when it comes to buying and selling magic swords that are acquired by adventurers.

It is simply impossible to mark up a magic sword x5 because that suggests a magic sword is not worth a magic sword. If I were doing a "trade in" and I discovered the residual cost accounted for a x5 markup, I would be affronted. Unless you honestly believe PCs would trade five magic longswords for one magic axe of similar properties, the concept is unworkable.

Magic items are like sugar. I don't care who it came from, I care how well it cuts.

 

[AZRogue]

Experience tells me that a middle school football game concession stand can get the same buck fifty for a Coke that McDonald's gets.

I agree with you. There's no solid concrete in-game reason why the PCs can't sell magic items for the same as a merchant other than the reasons DnD has used since AD&D to prevent magic item sales and whatever reasons the DM wants to come up with. The reason for the restriction is game balance, primarily, and that's something that's either important or not, depending on the group and DM. If you're comfortable not worrying about players getting more money than they should have then I don't think you should worry about it.

You know, when 3E came out many people were upset over magical items being sold in "stores" and PCs being allowed to sell them. Hell, it's still one of the primary complaints (alongside bonus stacking) of all the DMs I know. They're just dialing it back a bit and leaving the option open to close it off completely since many, many people never wanted that door opened in the first place. If you don't mind the door being opened, I don't think you'll have many problems.

 

[malraux]

Magic items are like sugar. I don't care who it came from, I care how well it cuts.

So you'd be just as happy with a hairgel of permanence as with a holy avenger? If not, then no magic items are not like sugar.

 

[keterys]

Sale of magic items is like sale of used soda.

Got it.

Hong's second law seriously should be kicking in by now.

 

[Shroomy]

If my players decide to forgo the lofty pursuits of traditional adventuring for the potentially lucrative career of magic item merchant, I would just let them do it. There's plenty of adventuring potential there: obtaining items from unscrupulous adventurers, facing off agaist backstabbing rivals, protecting their goods during the long trek between markets, finding potential buyers, dealing with criminals looking for a piece of the action, scrambling to get the necessary funds, etc., etc.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

If my players decide to forgo the lofty pursuits of traditional adventuring for the potentially lucrative career of magic item merchant, I would just let them do it. There's plenty of adventuring potential there: obtaining items from unscrupulous adventurers, facing off agaist backstabbing rivals, protecting their goods during the long trek between markets, finding potential buyers, dealing with criminals looking for a piece of the action, scrambling to get the necessary funds, etc., etc.

To add to the list: Have a Wolf Goddess join your group. (Hopefully someone will know the reference).

 

[Sojorn]

Do people think that when they kill something with no treasure, that they should get upset that the XP for that came out of a later encounter?

Challenges are rewarded with sometimes XP, sometimes treasure, and sometimes both. This is the Tao of D&D.

The way of the DM is to keep the twin rewards of XP and treasure in harmony. The system itself does much of the work, since items increase in cost by x5 every 5 levels. The DM only needs to challenge and reward appropriately. The system can survive the occasional treasure with no matching XP, just as it can survive the occasional XP with no matching treasure.

This is the way of things.

If my players decide to forgo the lofty pursuits of traditional adventuring for the potentially lucrative career of magic item merchant, I would just let them do it. There's plenty of adventuring potential there: obtaining items from unscrupulous adventurers, facing off agaist backstabbing rivals, protecting their goods during the long trek between markets, finding potential buyers, dealing with criminals looking for a piece of the action, scrambling to get the necessary funds, etc., etc.

Indeed. *sage nod*