Excerpt: Minions. Go forth mine minions! Bring havoc with your 1 hp [merged]

[Leatherhead]

It is probably too early to ask this, but summoning powers that summon minions for PCs:

Good idea or bad idea?

 

[JesterOC]

Minions certainly make the at-will cleave a very good power.

Yes much better than the two weapon fighting feat! If I recall correctly, the feat just adds damage to a single attack.

JesterOC

 

[Dausuul]

Well, I love the minion concept, and have done ever since I first learned of it. No complaints on that score.

I did, however, feel that the legion devils were... too much the same. I don't think the same monster should span the whole level range from mid-Heroic to low-Epic, without at least a general explanation for what the difference is between a Grunt and a Legionnaire. It has a bit of the treadmill feel--that sense that when you're level 1, the city guards are all 1st-level warriors, but when you're level 20, suddenly they've all turned into 18th-level fighters.

Oh well, maybe there's more about legion devils in the Monster Manual.

 

[keterys]

SO much so calling it a hit point was actually a BAD idea.

Oh, I dunno - they mostly only die on _hits_, and one of them at that. It may be the most appropriate use of the term ever.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

It is probably too early to ask this, but summoning powers that summon minions for PCs:

Good idea or bad idea?

As long as its minions and not just a single minion. They would actually come in pretty handy either distracting a ranged monster for a couple of rounds, or using them in melee to provide combat advantage for the front line fighters.

 

[ncc4781]

As I understand it, originally minions had no hit points, they just said they died on any successful attack. People objected, saying that meant minions could never be killed by damage that wasn't an attack (falling damage, environmental effects, etc.). So they gave it a hit point . . .

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Thats very loaded logic. (not referring to you personally, just the argument) One could conversely that that the ground you fall on is attacking you. It just always wins

 

[Hawke]

Yeah, Cleave+Minions makes me think of a character shouting "I am Cleave McCleaverson, Minion Killer Extraordinaire!" before rushing into a crowd and laying some serious waste.

Also, we shouldn't be asking whether the player knows if that goblin is a minion or not. The goblin should be asking himself whether or not it is a minion! Or maybe I'll have my first group roll up characters and then have them enter combat for the first time only to find out they were only minions. Maybe I'll even hint, "the enemy wizard attacks, but misses." "Damn, that power does half damage on a miss...how much do we take" "...no... you don't take any..."

 

[ncc4781]

...Also, we shouldn't be asking whether the player knows if that goblin is a minion or not. The goblin should be asking himself whether or not it is a minion! Or maybe I'll have my first group roll up characters and then have them enter combat for the first time only to find out they were only minions. Maybe I'll even hint, "the enemy wizard attacks, but misses." "Damn, that power does half damage on a miss...how much do we take" "...no... you don't take any..."

OH! that a scary thought. *shudders* You are an evil genius

 

[Blackeagle]

Yes much better than the two weapon fighting feat! If I recall correctly, the feat just adds damage to a single attack.

Well, there are some higher level powers that allow multiple attacks in the Stormwarden paragon path (those are both whirlwind attack type powers). My guess is there's a lower level power that lets you do two attacks when dual wielding. Wouldn't be surprised if it's encounter rather than at-will though.

 

[AllisterH]

The who and the what now? The bloodied mechanic does nothing in and of itself, it's just a descriptor. Yes, there are a lot of abilities which tie into it, but I'd like an explaination of why pinging monsters like that is the best idea.

As mentioned in the article, most monsters are out when subjected to 6-8 basic attacks. Encounter and Daily attacks are gnerally multiples of said basic attack. For simplicity, lets say an encounter power is 2xbasic attack and a daily is 3.

You're fighting a monster that has a Bloody threshold (what should we call monsters that "trigger" at bloody?").

Let's say it take 6 basic "hits" to take out the monster.
If you open with an encounter power and then follow up with at-will attacks, you're looking at the following
Round 1: Encounter = 2hits
Round 2 : At-will, Monster become bloody.
Rounds 3-5, you're fighting a much tougher creature as you'll need 3 more rounds to put the monster down.

If you open with at-will attack until the monster is bloody, you get the following,
Round 1-3: At-will, monster become bloody.
Round 4: Encounter = 2 hits
Round 5: At will knocks out monster

So instead of taking on a monster for 3 rounds when its super-strong, you only fight it for one round. Similarly the same thing even applies to the angel of valor. Your chance of HITTING with your encounter/daily power actually goes UP by 10% when it becomes bloody.

Thus, it makes more sense to open with at-will until bloody THEN go to town with the big guns. Which is why I don't think the *problem* of PCs using dailies on minions will actually occur at least after people get experience with the system.