Excerpt: Multiclassing (merged)

[swgeek77]

In the end, we came up with a system of feats that allow you to borrow abilities and powers from other classes. At 11th level, you can choose to forgo your paragon path in order to further specialize in a second class. This approach lacks the intuitive elegance of the 3E system, but it allows us to tone down or boost a class's multiclass options as needed. If everything works as planned, you have the flexibility to mix classes without making your character into a juggernaut or a cripple. Combos like fighter/wizard now work much better, while traditional choices like fighter/rogue still function just fine. Going forward, we'll introduce new feats for new classes, ensuring that all classes play well together.

This seems to be saying that you can't multiclass from level one, only levels 11 through 20.

Also, I think the levels that are in the benefits section of the feats table have something to do with this:

When you take one of these power-swap feats, you give up a power of your choice from your primary class and replace it with a power of the same level or lower from the class you have multiclassed in.

Since powers have a specific level that they are available at, I think the feats allow you to choose a power with a maximum level set by the feat; 4th, 8th and 10th respectively.

That is just how I am interpreting the wording

 

[FireLance]

When you buy the swap-power feat, you don't add anything, you just trade powers.
A character with such a feat has, power-wise, one feat less.
You are trading power for concept.

And a character who takes all three feats has three feats less. While I get the tradeoff between power and concept, I wonder whether I'd be giving up too much power. A single power swap doesn't seem to be very good value for a feat. By 4e's design philosophy, a power of level X from class A should be about as valuable as a power of level X from class B.

I personally think that a single feat should be enough to get you an encounter power swap from 4th level, a utility power swap from 8th level, and a daily power swap from 10th level. Unless this results in some grossly broken combinations, I will probably house-rule it this way in 4e.

 

[muffin_of_chaos]

I personally think that a single feat should be enough to get you an encounter power swap from 4th level, a utility power swap from 8th level, and a daily power swap from 10th level. Unless this results in some grossly broken combinations, I will probably house-rule it this way in 4e.

Grossly, grossly broken.

 

[neceros]

Since powers have a specific level that they are available at, I think the feats allow you to choose a power with a maximum level set by the feat; 4th, 8th and 10th respectively.

That is just how I am interpreting the wording

A play tester has corrected the improper grammar. Those feats should have the 4th, 8th, and 10th entries under Prerequisites, not benefits.

 

[Scrollreader]

I personally think that a single feat should be enough to get you an encounter power swap from 4th level, a utility power swap from 8th level, and a daily power swap from 10th level. Unless this results in some grossly broken combinations, I will probably house-rule it this way in 4e.

The breaks are in the wrong place on that list. Those levels are the /pre-reqs/. The text states that as you go up in level, the power can change. This means you can, with your encounter feat, eventually have a wizard 30 encounter power (if there is one). I'd say that's worth a feat.

 

[FireLance]

You're trading power for /flexibility/ IMO. Rogues don't get Aoe damage, normally. it's not their deal. They're single target DPS, to use MMO terminology. Spending a feat or two to get the ability to lay down level equivalent wizard-Aoe goodness is what you're buying. You're paying for the ability to go outside your role. For being able to bring aspects of another role, as well as the goodies you already have.

The cost of going outside your role is not being as good in your primary role, and you already pay that cost by giving up one (or more) of your powers.

This feels like the "Mystic Theurge is broken!" argument all over again.

 

[neceros]

I personally think that a single feat should be enough to get you an encounter power swap from 4th level, a utility power swap from 8th level, and a daily power swap from 10th level. Unless this results in some grossly broken combinations, I will probably house-rule it this way in 4e.

Feats are less powerful in 4th, than in 3.5.

 

[lkj]

. . . By 4e's design philosophy, a power of level X from class A should be about as valuable as a power of level X from class B. . .

Yes, but I assume only in the context of that class and it's abilities. Presumably, if you could just pick and choose powers and abilities from any of the classes and put them together, you can create very unbalanced combinations.

In essence the equation is really: class A is balanced with class B, NOT power A=Power B.

AD

 

[small pumpkin man]

This seems to be saying that you can't multiclass from level one, only levels 11 through 20.

The feats give you extra powers, so do Paragon paths, there is no difference, both are "multiclassing"

Also, I think the levels that are in the benefits section of the feats table have something to do with this:

Since powers have a specific level that they are available at, I think the feats allow you to choose a power with a maximum level set by the feat; 4th, 8th and 10th respectively.

That is just how I am interpreting the wording

No. Read Mouseferatu's post, he's actually played the game, those levels are the lowest level you can take the feat.

 

[FireLance]

The breaks are in the wrong place on that list. Those levels are the /pre-reqs/. The text states that as you go up in level, the power can change. This means you can, with your encounter feat, eventually have a wizard 30 encounter power (if there is one). I'd say that's worth a feat.

In the absence of better information, I'm going with the pre-requisites. Yes, that means that you will have a 3rd-level encounter power in your primary class for one level before you can swap it out at 4th (which, presumably, is what would happen if you took Novice Power at 4th level).