Excerpt: Multiclassing (merged)

[hong]

You're not making any damn sense. You're just adding words in for no good reason. What the hell are you talking about?

AND WHY IS ENWORLD SLOW?

I will explain this very slowly, so that ENWorld can catch up to me. Let us say you currently cast arcane spells. Under this 4E multiclassing paradigm principle thinking, you do not gain access to all divine and arcane spells for one feat. You gain access to _one_ divine spell. What is more, you pay for that by also losing access to _one_ arcane spell.

Is this really worth a feat?

 

[Spatula]

I'm not arguing that multiclassing doesn't cost a feat to expand your options, I'm saying that claiming it costs a feat and a power is fallacious.

The facts are fallacious now?

You spend a feat. You lose one of your class powers. You gain a power from another class. The cost of gaining 1 cross-class power is: 1 feat, 1 class power. Regardless of whether you think the trade-off is worth it or not, that's the cost.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Not sure where you got the idea that elven chain is specific to 2E but it is not. It existed with the same properties in 1e AD&D. I can't speak for BEMCI, though, but it would certainly make some sense there since elves were the only F/MUs.

Huh? As far as I can remember, in 2E anyway, if you were a multiclass Fighter/Magic User, you could not cast wizard spells (arcane spells) in metal armors save for elven chain. At least in 3E you had the chance to cast in metal armor, you just have Arcane Spell Failure. In 2E, the answer to casting arcane spells in metal armor was simply "NO!"

Please correct me if I am wrong. It's been a long time since I played 2E and even longer since I played 1E. But if they DID have a way for magic users to cast in metal armor, I'd like to be reminded of it.

 

[Vendark]

Given that he has already chosen the 3rd-level and 1st-level encounter powers from his primary class, they can't be too shabby. In fact, they would probably be the powers that the player feels are either most useful or most appropriate to the character.

If he was truly happy with all his powers, he probably wouldn't take the feat yet. If he does take the feat, then one of his powers is merely a stopgap, the one he found least objectionable for his character at the time.

 

[small pumpkin man]

Focus on Str and Int, pick a weapon that favors Int (hypothetical, we've seen weapons that favor Con and, I think, Dex), and you should be okay. Int will boost your Ref Def (I love that phrase) and AC if you're in light armor, so Dex isn't too vital. Con would be nice, but Str covers your Fort Def and if you're base fighter you've got decent hp and healing surges. Depending on how useful Wis and Cha are to fighters and wizards, I don't think you're going to be hurting.

Let me put it this way, I see Fighter/Warlords working fine and dandy, and Warlord/Wizards being awsome, but assuming Fighters need 2 to 3 stats like everyone else seems to, the question is whether adding a fourth stat hurts you too much, especially without stat boosters.

Then again, if the only problem with multiclassing is greater MAD, I think we'll all be lucky.

 

[FireLance]

If he was truly happy with all his powers, he probably wouldn't take the feat yet. If he does take the feat, then one of his powers is merely a stopgap, the one he found least objectionable for his character at the time.

Least objectionable is close enough to best (given his options) that my point that he is replacing the best with the best still stands.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I will explain this very slowly, so that ENWorld can catch up to me. Let us say you currently cast arcane spells. Under this 4E multiclassing paradigm principle thinking, you do not gain access to all divine and arcane spells for one feat. You gain access to _one_ divine spell. What is more, you pay for that by also losing access to _one_ arcane spell.

Is this really worth a feat?

Well you sorta do have access to all divine powers, you simply can only equip one per-feat. However, seeing how you can change that power each level, you can adapt it to suit the circumstance you feel is best for the way your character is developing.

This adds in my eyes a lot of flexibility.

 

[Bishmon]

A playtester has already stated that the powers are balanced in the context of their original class, but grant more power to other classes when they use a multiclass feat to get them. These cross-class powers are more powerful for the multiclass character cherry picking them because they can grant a tactical option the original class lacks entirely.

At the expense of increased tactical options in situations the class is intended for.

Let's say I'm a greatsword-using fighter. Sure, I could gain a ranger archery power that opens up a new tactical option, but that's at the expense of one of my own melee-focused powers, a power that keys off my prime attribute, works in more situations I will find myself in, works with the weapon I've been upgrading, and doesn't force me to spend actions to switch weapons.

I'm not saying your argument lacks any merit, just that it isn't quite as nice and easy as you make it seem.

 

[Mort]

I will explain this very slowly, so that ENWorld can catch up to me. Let us say you currently cast arcane spells. Under this 4E multiclassing paradigm principle thinking, you do not gain access to all divine and arcane spells for one feat. You gain access to _one_ divine spell. What is more, you pay for that by also losing access to _one_ arcane spell.

Is this really worth a feat?

Does the feat spent allow you to take a power that lets your character accomplish what you wish him to, if yes, then maybe it's worth it (certainly depends on the power level of other feats). Regardless, it seems that builds in 4e will be very fluid and if you think the feat wasn't worth it - it's extremely easy to change.

 

[Kordeth]

The facts are fallacious now?

You spend a feat. You lose one of your class powers. You gain a power from another class. The cost of gaining 1 cross-class power is: 1 feat, 1 class power. Regardless of whether you think the trade-off is worth it or not, that's the cost.

The class power isn't part of the cost. All characters get the same number of power selections every time they gain the appropriate level--"losing" a class power in this instant is absolutely no different than choosing, say, Cleave instead of Tide of Iron from your own class's list of powers. You aren't losing anything, you're making a choice. A choice, remember, that retraining allows you to make even as a single class character.