Excerpt: powers (merged)

[Voss]

Actually, making 'alliance' conditional to consent only exacerbates the Pit Fiend debate (assuming the point of contention was: "would a summoned demon consent to be blown up given a choice in the matter?")

(and for the record, I voted 'who the hell cares, they're NPCs')

/tangent

The hierarchy of hell forces them to consent?
If they aren't willing it never happens so the power couldn't exist, so the powers very existence means he can blow up his subordinates

 

[Ingolf]

With regards to the bag-of-rats:

Woe to the DM that allows this....

Even more woe to the player who tries it at my table . . .

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The hierarchy of hell forces them to consent?
If they aren't willing it never happens so the power couldn't exist, so the powers very existence means he can blow up his subordinates

"Explode now, or be tortured to Death later. What do you pick, Devil Legionnaire?"

 

[med stud]

The hierarchy of hell forces them to consent?
If they aren't willing it never happens so the power couldn't exist, so the powers very existence means he can blow up his subordinates

Exactly. It would be a lousy power if the devil minions would put their self-preserving above the loyalty to the pit fiend.

Thinking about, it since devils most likely don't leave Hell when they die, maybe sacrificing yourself for a pit fiend would increase your chances of promotion? It's not only a honour and a duty to lower devils, it's also a career path? That way, devils will be like the ultimate samurais; they don't throw their lives away, but they sacrifice it witout blinking if ordered to.

 

[med stud]

With regards to the bag-of-rats:



Even more woe to the player who tries it at my table . . .

I can't understand why this bag-of-rats crap is even brought up. It's so obvious that it is stupid metagaming that no DM would let it pass anyway.

 

[abyssaldeath]

I don't think all powers are obvious. I think it was referring to marks specifically. That way if you use a mark to make sure an enemy only attacks you it would be nice if the enemy knew that they are going to be negatively effected if they attack anyone else.

Edit: Well maybe not marks specifically, but definitely all powers that act like attacks. There are probably some powers that are exempt.

 

[Ingolf]

I can't understand why this bag-of-rats crap is even brought up. It's so obvious that it is stupid metagaming that no DM would let it pass anyway.

Because acting as if stupid metagaming rules-lawyering behavior is normal and commonplace - and that DMs are helpless in the face of such tactics - is one of the principle debate techniques employed in arguments about D&D. Any edition.

It's also a sure bet that the person trotting it out has already lost the argument, but don't tell them that . . .

 

[FireLance]

Actually, making 'alliance' conditional to consent only exacerbates the Pit Fiend debate (assuming the point of contention was: "would a summoned demon consent to be blown up given a choice in the matter?")

The pit fiend's Infernal Summons is a Conjuration effect, which means the summoned devils are created from magical energy. I'd simply assume that mindless obedience to the creator is part of the specifications.

(and for the record, I voted 'who the hell cares, they're NPCs')

Not only NPCs, but magically created NPCs to boot, for a double dosage of "Who cares?"

 

[Plane Sailing]

The Book of Exalted Deeds or its counterpart came up with attack spells, where one part was an elemental effect, whereas the other half of the damage couldn't be resisted at all, because it was either hell-energy or something more divine. Now, it's just a 4th edition core rules that applies to all energy type attacks, the same as epic tier is now core.

Errr... For 3.0 how about the PHB with Flame Strike (half fire, half divine)? That must be the first instance, surely?

 

[Cadfan]

I like the 50/50 energy damage. Saves me from trying to figure out what thunder-fire looks like.

The only complaint I have is that I wouldn't mind if they spelled out the split in the spell description. You know, instead of 25 fire and sonic damage divided in half, 15 fire damage and 10 sonic. But I'll get over it.