Excerpt: Swarms

[Dausuul]

You may not have noticed, but the rats are a skirmisher, while the drakes are a soldier. That makes their implementation quite different. The drakes are meant to be front and center, the primary threat, while the rats are meant to come in and attack while you're dealing with something else.

That's interesting... so does this mean there is an expectation built into the rules about how many you will have of each type? You're never supposed to have an encounter with five soldiers?

...Seems wonky to me. I mean, call them what you will, but the drake swarm is much, MUCH stronger than the rat swarm, almost absurdly so. It deals almost 50% more damage on its base attack, and the ability to drag people down as a minor action and then nosh on them for an extra 1d10 is vastly superior to a mere 3 ongoing damage (save ends). It even moves faster than the rat swarm! What's with that? I thought skirmishers were supposed to be the agile, mobile ones.

You know, I'm starting to think that whoever put up the swarm excerpt just made a typo and the drake swarm is actually supposed to be level 4.

 

[keterys]

You may not have noticed, but the rats are a skirmisher, while the drakes are a soldier. That makes their implementation quite different. The drakes are meant to be front and center, the primary threat, while the rats are meant to come in and attack while you're dealing with something else.

Correct. The rats are supposed to deal more damage (oops, much less), fight in a potentially more mobile fashion (oops, half the speed), have lower defenses (check!)... in short, they're supposed to be more fragile and deal more damage, balancing out them being worth the same XP.

 

[Mengu]

Next test, 3rd level party vs 6 swarms...

Gave the party +1 weapons and implements, +1 armor, and +1 defenses from magic items.

TPK again. Swarm got initiative. Front of the swarm attacked the front line, took down the poor paladin before he could do anything (24 pts on a crit, ouch). The rest of the swarm double moved to the back end of the party. I gave up when only one swarm was down, and only the Fighter and Rogue were standing.

For kicks I went back and replayed the level 2 scenario with 5 swarms in a jungle instead of 10 foot hallway. TPK again.

At this point, I firmly believe the Needlefang Drake Swarm is not right for its level and role. It hits like a brute and soaks up damage like an elite. The only times the characters beat the things were when they had initiative and knew exactly what needed to be done.

 

[Jack99]

You know, I'm starting to think that whoever put up the swarm excerpt just made a typo and the drake swarm is actually supposed to be level 4.

I doubt that. All the rest of the stats fit with level 2. However, the typo is possibly in the damage section, that would make sense as well, while still fitting with the rest of the monster's stats. Except that it has +2 too much to it's defenses ofc... Maybe that is a swarm thing?

 

[Dausuul]

I doubt that. All the rest of the stats fit with level 2. However, the typo is possibly in the damage section, that would make sense as well, while still fitting with the rest of the monster's stats. Except that it has +2 too much to it's defenses ofc... Maybe that is a swarm thing?

Well, let's compare it to the rat swarm.

Relative to the rat swarm, the drake swarm has:

• +3 on all defenses
• +2 on attacks
• Essentially the same hit points
• +3 damage on a normal attack
• +1d10 damage versus prone target (and ability to knock a target prone roughly 50% of the time)
• Lose 3 ongoing damage
• +3 movement

Still, as you point out, the drake swarm's ability modifiers are too low to be level 4, while they are consistent with level 2. Maybe it's supposed to be level 3?

 

[keterys]

Soldiers tend to have pretty high defenses. The knockdown is good, it being hard to kill is fine... it just does way too much damage.

I think there's just a problem in the design, let's not lay the blame at whoever works the articles this time It has the right hp and stats to fit a level 2 character... but maybe it used to be a level 6-8 brute in the dinosaur section and got reduced to 2, but only partway.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Soldiers tend to have pretty high defenses. The knockdown is good, it being hard to kill is fine... it just does way too much damage.

I think there's just a problem in the design, let's not lay the blame at whoever works the articles this time It has the right hp and stats to fit a level 2 character... but maybe it used to be a level 6-8 brute in the dinosaur section and got reduced to 2, but only partway.

I wonder if one of the designers will react to this?

The Rouse or Mearls must act! Khur, where are you?

 

[Dausuul]

Soldiers tend to have pretty high defenses. The knockdown is good, it being hard to kill is fine... it just does way too much damage.

I think there's just a problem in the design, let's not lay the blame at whoever works the articles this time It has the right hp and stats to fit a level 2 character... but maybe it used to be a level 6-8 brute in the dinosaur section and got reduced to 2, but only partway.

Ugh, I hope it didn't make it into the Monster Manual like that. Coupled with the recent brouhaha over zombies versus goblins, I'm starting to worry. Seems like we're getting a lot of this kind of thing. My faith in "the math" is rapidly diminishing.

 

[Jack99]

I wonder if one of the designers will react to this?

The Rouse or Mearls must act! Khur, where are you?

Slackers are probably gone for the weekend...

What shall we do! Will the uncertainty of not knowing if it is indeed a typo or a flaw in design kill us?

Cheers

 

[Jack99]

Actually, now that I think about it, I am thinking it is an evil plot by the equally evil mearls.

He changed the stats in the article, knowing that the interweb nerds would rage all weekend long, trying to figure out wth happened, while he chuckles all the way to church (err evil temple).