Excerpts: Angels

[Ipissimus]

Meanwhile, evil gods were served by . . . nobody.

Ahhhhhhh... they must have different books than I do. I always thought that the evil gods were pretty well catered for. Neutral gods... still catered for but not so much.

I mean, I do dig why they're changing angels and I like what they've done. Making them more useful to the game is a good change. I just don't get why this particular reason keeps coming up when there are more important concerns.

I don't mind dumping the symmetry of the planes either as long as the alignment system stays as a guide to roleplaying.

On a more positive note, the stats for Angels that have been revealed so far make me happy. One of the things that annoyed me in the last few editions was the way power levels seemed to slide to favor the two 'extreme' alignments LG & CE while LG took a double dip. I'll enjoy a much more level playing field in 4E if it turns out that way.

 

[KidSnide]

Maybe we should compare with the roleplaying side of the card?

QFT.

If we want to track changes over time, it does little good to compare MM entries with DDM stats, since we already know that the DDM stats are modified to shrink the gap between the more powerful creatures and the less powerful creatures.

 

[malraux]

Could the MM tactics be presuming that the angel is catching the party flat-footed and the tactics describe it's surprise round choice? That would kinda fit, as it somehow pops in and triggers a single surprise round. In that case, it's tactic kinda makes sense.

 

[MaelStorm]

Maybe we should compare with the roleplaying side of the card?

MM Entry:

Angel of Valor, Level 8 Soldier
Medium immortal humanoid (angel), XP 350

Initiative: +10 Senses Perception +6
Angelic Presence Attacks against the angel of valor take a –2 penalty until the angel is bloodied.
HP: 88; Bloodied: 44
AC: 24; Fortitude: 22, Reflex: 20, Will: 19
Immune: fear; Resist: 10 fire, 10 radiant
Speed: 6, fly 9 (hover)

Longsword (standard; at-will) Weapon; +13 vs. AC; 1d8 + 6 damage.
Dagger (standard; at-will) Weapon; +13 vs. AC; 1d4 + 6 damage.
Blade Fury (standard; at-will) Weapon; The angel of valor makes a longsword attack and a dagger attack.
Lightning Strike (standard; encounter) Lightning; Close burst 1; targets enemies; +11 vs. Fortitude; 1d8 + 4 lightning damage, and the target is dazed until the end of the angel of valor’s next turn.
Fiery Blades (minor, usable only while bloodied; at-will) Fire; Until the start of the angel of valor’s next turn, the angel of valor’s weapons deal fire damage and attack the target’s Reflex defense instead of AC.

Alignment: Any
Languages: Supernal
Skills: Intimidate +12
Str 23 (+10)
Dex 18 (+8)
Wis 14 (+6)
Con 16 (+7)
Int 11 (+4)
Cha 16 (+7)
Equipment: chainmail, longsword, dagger

RPG Stat Card:

Angel of Valor, Level 8 Soldier
Medium immortal humanoid (angel)

Senses Perception: +10
Immune: Fear; Resist: lgt 15, rad 15
HP: 57; Bloodied: 28
AC: 24; Fortitude: 18, Reflex: 18, Will: 21

ATTACK
Longsword +16 vs. AC; 1d8+3.
Dagger +15 vs. AC; 1d4+3.
Lightning Blades Minor; until start of next turn, atks target Ref and deal lgt dmg. Effects end if awesome presence is canceled.

LIMITED POWERS
Lightning Strike Burst 1; +10 vs Fort; 3d8+6 lgt AND Dazed 1 rd. Rchg 6.

ABILITIES
Awesome Presence -2 atk against this creature until it is Bloodied. Fear effect.
Valorous Strike When hits with atk, allies within 10 make immed save to end fear effect.

Str +7 (17)
Dex +6 (15)
Wis +5 (13)
Con +6 (14)
Int +4 (10)
Cha +10 (22)

 

[AllisterH]

I'm wondering why they decided to change angels from being created by the gods, to having an independent origin.

Hmm?

I thought devas and solars were created by the planes themselves and NOT the deities. The only thing 4E did I thought was switch their birthplace from the Upper Realms to the Astral?

What previous edition book revealed that angels were created by the gods?

 

[DandD]

I agree with TwinBahamut's critique-relating question. How did angels (d)evolve to devils?

 

[AverageCitizen]

This is very disappointing. The story and the concept are just not doing it for me. It seems like they've bent over backwards just to provide an excuse for these to be used against players arbitrarily, and in doing so have sacrificed good story-telling. I don't like the way they've handled this at all, which just means more work for me.

Is the whole MM going to be like this? Are all story-related npcs going to be crushed into concepts that don't fit, like square pegs in a round hole, just so that every creature in the MM can be pitted against the characters at any time?

Its not a difficult concept. Angels vs. Demons. Got it?

 

[Deverash]

Interestingly, with paladins crowd control being to deal some radiant damage to someone who doesn't attack them, Angels can pretty much run amok, unless the damage goes up significantly. With resist 10 or 15 radiant, they won't even feel it.

 

[Mirtek]

Also, if Devils are supposedly "Fallen Angels", then why is it that devils look so different than angels? How can a mercenary unaligned being that is willing to serve an evil god even fall in the first place? This is especially strange since evil gods like Bane might very well have both Angel mercenaries and Devil mercenaries working under them at the same time (Angels working directly under Pit Fiends?). It doesn't make any sense to me.

Well, their fall seems to be less spiritually and more (other)worldly.

The deities saw them defying one of their own (and even worse: murdering him) and feared that the angel race as a whole might lose respect for them. So they decided to teach them a lesson and cursed them through divine magics.

So it wasn't the act of treason itself which changed the devils, it was the divine retribution

 

[Leatherhead]

insert pictures here

These remind me vaguely of Diablo 2.