D&D 5E (2014) Exhaustion for old 1e undead level drain

[Quartz]

Silly DMs who always had their undead attacking from ahead of the party...

 

[Quartz]

Silly DMs who always had their undead attacking from ahead of the party...

Not really. It was more the fighter types going in first. Either entering the room / crypt / whatever or - being strong - lifting the sarcophagus lid or seal or breaking the door etc.

 

[Lyxen]

Not really. It was more the fighter types going in first. Either entering the room / crypt / whatever or - being strong - lifting the sarcophagus lid or seal or breaking the door etc.

Yes, de facto, the martial are more often at the front of the action and the casters at the rear. It's not always the case, but it's often enough the case that it biases the effect of Level Drain, especially for AD&D type games.

 

[Weiley31]

From the MM shadow:

Strength Drain. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 9 (2d6 + 2) necrotic damage, and the target's Strength score is reduced by 1d4. The target dies if this reduces its Strength to 0. Otherwise, the reduction lasts until the target finishes a short or long rest.

One could always make it homebrew that other Undead do this but can affect stats other than STR. You might have two ghouls, but one could hit DEX and the other could hit CHA.

Add in Multi-Attack for higher leveled Undead or boss Undead and getting hit multiple times with your something like that would be hella scary.

 

[HammerMan]

related quastion... would anyone here play in a game (revealed ahead of time in session 0) that brought level drain back into 5e?

not everything would have it, but say 1-2 minion types of undead (wights) and some boss monster types?

Would it matter if it was 2 saves like 3e, 1 save...or even no save (aka just if hit you loose it)?

 

[Voadam]

In a game with energy draining undead doing so with every hit, or casters armed with energy draining weapons and spells including cantrips, the challenge is keeping the party from getting killed.

What energy draining cantrips are there?

 

[HammerMan]

What energy draining cantrips are there?

I don't know... but my warlock will trade Toll the Dead for it...

New Cantrip 'Cheesy Goodness' necromancy (munchkin) target makes a save or takes a negative level (providing a -1 to all of there attacks, attribute checks and saves until they take a short rest) this stacks with itself... at level 11 it becomes 1d4 negative levels. If a creature has as many negative levels as they have HD they die.
Creatures resistant or immune to necrotic damage are immune to this effect

 

[Voadam]

Interesting, in that for some reason we've had them as incorporeal since day one.

Looking at the 1e MM the illustrations for both Spectres and Wraiths very strongly imply incorporeality: the Spectre is obviously at least semi-transparent and the Wraith is shown as a wafty-looking dark thing with no legs.

This is later backed up by the UA Illusionist spell Wraithform, which specifically states the target becomes insubstantial and can pass through tiny openings or cracks and otherwise implies the target becomes a Wraith in all ways except attack forms.

Its interesting in that spectres look a lot like they were intended to be Nazgul ringwraith stand ins, relatively top tier scary undead. But ringwraiths ride mounts and wield weapons. Whether spectres could pick up objects or not and whether they could walk through walls or not seems undefined in AD&D.

In OD&D however spectres explicitly were incorporeal.

SPECTRES: These monsters have no corporeal body which makes them totally impervious to all normal weaponry (but can be struck by all magical weapons), including silver-tipped arrows.

In contrast OD&D wraiths were simply more powerful flying wights that other than the name you would not expect them to be incorporeal from their description.

WRAITHS: These monsters are simply high-class Wights with more mobility, hit dice, and treasure. Hits by silver-tipped arrows will score only 1/2 die of damage, and magic arrows only score 1 die of damage when they hit.

The 1e wraithform spell makes it sound like wraiths might be more like vaporous smoke that needs small openings than incorporeal that can go through solid walls, but this could just be the spell form acting only fairly similar to the actual nature of wraiths.

Wraithform (Alteration/Illusion)
Level: 3 Components: S, M
Range: 0
Duration: 2 rounds/level
Area of Effect: The illusionist
Explanation/Description: When this spell is cast, the illusionist and all of his or her gear become insubstantial. The caster can be hit only by magic weapons of + 1 or better, or by creatures otherwise able to affect those struck only by magic weapons. Undead of most sorts will ignore an individual in wraithform, believing him or her to be a wraith or spectre, though a lich or “special” undead may save versus spell at -4 to recognize the dweomer. The illusionist will be able to pass through small holes or narrow openings, even mere cracks, with all he or she wears or holds in his or her hands, as long as the spell persists. No form of attack is possible when in wraithform, except against creatures which exist on the Ethereal Plane, where all attacks (both ways) are normal. Dispel illusion and dispel magic are the only ways to force an illusionist in wraithform back to normal form. The spell caster can return to normal form at will, but this ends the spell effect. The material components for this spell are a bit of gauze and a wisp of smoke.

 

[DND_Reborn]

related quastion... would anyone here play in a game (revealed ahead of time in session 0) that brought level drain back into 5e?

not everything would have it, but say 1-2 minion types of undead (wights) and some boss monster types?

Would it matter if it was 2 saves like 3e, 1 save...or even no save (aka just if hit you loose it)?

I would. I miss it. If you implemented it as DM, I would go along with any option (no save, one save, spells can restore, whatever...)

 

[DND_Reborn]

Yes, de facto, the martial are more often at the front of the action and the casters at the rear. It's not always the case, but it's often enough the case that it biases the effect of Level Drain, especially for AD&D type games.

(bold added) Not directed at @Lyxen.

IME if your DM is only attacking from the front, that isn't very exciting.

When I DM, I often attack from multiple directions, so there is really no place for casters to go to be safe since the parties aren't large enough to circle them.