Experience points and leveling...

[Li Shenron]

How do you handle experience points and leveling?

The current way our gaming group handles experience and leveling is to wait until an encounter is over and they are in a place safe enough for them to train undisturbed, and if they have enough experience, they can advance. We roll a d4 to determine how many days of training it takes to gain the benefits of advancement. A very simple method, and a bit too abstract for my tastes.

It would be great to hear how other DM's and groups handle experience points and leveling.

1. The way of our DM

He gives XPs after every session, but usually finds the way to end the session when the characters are not "in the middle of something". He gives up all upgrades (except prepared spells) immediately, with no training needed ever.

2. My old way, when I was a DM

I gave XPs at the end of a PCs' day, and told the players that their character basically get XPs from the day when they "settle down" quitely around the campfire and ponder about their daily deeds. Upgrade advantages are basically available next morning.

I never required specific training, and told the players that the levelling up is actually gained through acting, and all benfits have been "gathered" in time since last levelling up, although for playability's reasons they are granted at once.

Anyway, I appreciate very much (but never required, that would be mean) if a player increases e.g. his Spellcraft rank because he's been using the skill a lot in the previous level, or if he takes Weapon Focus in the weapon he's been using most of the time and not in a new one. I think it's just nice if all makes sense, but I would never forbid a PC to take something new.

 

[Davek]

In my game leveling up generally just happens except for the following exceptions.

Arcane spell users must indicate at each level, which spells they are working on for the next spell level. It soesn't cost anything but just reflects that they have begun the thought process. If they change their mind they have to spend some down time studying.

Skills: if they use a skill they already have they can increase automatically, but if they want to learn a new skill (that they have not used) they have to spend some time training.

Change class: if they want to change class, they need to let me know 1 level in advance, (so I can prepare suitable training/learning encounter) and then spend some down time training. I will waive the down time, but then they don't receive all the benefits of the new skill/class/spell until enough 'trial and error' (in game attempts) occur, this is a variable amount depending on circumstances.

 

[Dinkeldog]

I'm moving this to house rules, as it's not a discussion on what the rules say should happen to advance a level.

 

[Anubis]

I have NEVER been for only gaining XP and levels after a game session. That style is WAY too limiting and unrealistic for my tastes.

To be perfectly honest, running a huge campaign, multi-layered adventure, or an epic game is impossible if XP and levels are handled that way.

I have done thigns one of two ways:

1) Levels are gained when the party exits the stage to heal up, restock supplies, etc.

2) Levels can be gained as soon as the requireed XP are agained/

1 used to be my prefered choice, but I lean heavily toward 2 now.

 

[mmu1]

Well, I am criticising the 1d4 day method.

Anything that blatantly calls attention to the highly artificial and lacking in verisimilitude system of leveling up is a Bad Thing, in my opinion. If they have the free time, and they're normal human beings, the only thing adventurers should be interested in after barely getting out of some horrible place with their lives is thanking the gods, getting some rest and maybe recording it for posterity...

That, and there are many campaigns (like the aforementioned CotSQ) where and approach such as this simply doesn't work, because the players won't get 4 days of uniterrupted rest when they're camping in the Underdark, and more importantly, they're on a tight schedule to stop something horrible from happening - and the campaign is supposed to take them up eight levels.

Personally, I allow people to level up just about anywhere except in the middle of combat. I won't allow them to pick up skills they had no exposure to whatsoever (like someone deciding out of the blue they want Knowledgelanes), wizards need to tell me what spells they're working on in advance, and spellcasters need to get a night of rest, as usual, to get use of their new slots - but other than that, pretty much anytime, anywhere.

 

[Anubis]

I do a similar thing regarding spellcasters, kinda, except that NEW slots can be gained in the normal time for memorizing spells (1 hour I believe) without rest, although the rest that have already been used up are unavailable until resting. Also, wizards can only gain new spells in town. So levelling up in the middle of adventures definitely favors fighting classes. It makes sense in a realism sense, however.

Anyway, I now gain levels immediately after combat in which the number of XP needed are gained, pretty much exactly like in RPG video games such as Final Fantasy.

"Defeated the enemy. Gained 150 XP. Tanaris gained a level. Mayless gained a level. Eden gained a level. Radie gained a level."

That was what happened when my players reached Level 2 after defeating four hobgoblins.

 

[cptg1481]

Just Because I wrote it....

The mechanics of leveling are absract and I treat them as usch in my game except for the fact that it does take time.....to get better.

I love this question it is one that has fascinated me as a player for years and now as DM I get to act on the things I found silly and well, silly.

I recently played in a great game with a fantastic story line and plot twists; however, my enjoyment of the game was cheapened on two accounts.

1. We saved the world, basically as about 12th level characters, I wondered where all of the epic guys and truly "world influencing" (15-20th level) guys had gone? Perhaps they were busy with other more important quests etc. At this mid-level range I think that saving a town, defeating a local warlord who is part of a worl domination plan or leading an small army are appropriate, not world saving. 12th level guys would be short lived in this situation, I think of all the assassins that would be sent out to stop these upstarts as the epic NPCs and such began to fear for their places and roles in the world.

2. The passage of game time.... all told in a little under 4 months of life my 1/2 Orc Fighter.... joined an adventure group took a couple of levels (all of 4 days game time), studied and became a ranger took two levels, studied wizardry too, took 3 levels of that, joined the spell swords, and finished my lustrous career at all of 16 years and 4+ months old, a hero having saved the world from an age of chaos. Whooooho!

I mean it is fantasy but come on, I this type of game when do wizards, research spells and make stuff. (That, was a whole n-other issue with us raking in about 10% of the wealth on the wealth by level chart, I have declined to play with the GM in future scenarios because there is no opportunity to do any of the high level stuff like make magic, stronghold build, etc. but that’s another topic altogether.)

In my own game I am going with a level a year approach, that being the hero's spend about a couple of weeks adventuring per-year the rest is training, research, etc. In an abstract way they don’t have to find instructors, spend cash etc. During that time I give them ample opportunity to earn money and stuff since it does take their time. Now they are at about 10th level and as such they will go to the level every three year schedule, this is because that now they all have minions, strongholds, and other key plot roles to play in the campaign and therefore spend a great deal of time dealing with matters of state, politics and economy. After 20th I'll probably go with a level per 5 plan. All told a human fighter will hit middle age at about 13-15th level and old age around 18th 21st level after that a human PC without magic lifespan enhancement will only live long enough to reach 25th level or so.

This plan allows even the longer-lived classes a chance to get to middle age by the time they are reaching epic status. I don't really think that its fair to make the other races go slower in age progression by levels except with NPC’s who will follow the same schedule for age and levels as humans above, reaching the same points age wise at the same levels i.e. an elf NPC 20th level wizard will be "old" or around 250+ years.

Age for wizards is a boon and I allow my players to start at middle age if the want so they can get the non-physical advantages that a younger fighter gets by virtue of an early start.

Anyway, age is a cool part of RPGs that is often overlooked by DM's who want a faster paced game. I still manage to achieve a fast paced plot wise even with the slow down of game time.

 

[navriin]

I would prefer that time between levels be substational, about a year or so as well. I have a big problem with characters maing epic 'gods of the craft' levels by the time they are 24...something doesn't seem right about it.

Generally I advance NPC's a level per year, modified by how active they are, I eventually plan on having PC's level about once a game year as well, not so much as by an artificial rule requirement, but more because of their only being a few 'adventures' in any given year. If the world was dangerous enought to reach 20th level in a few years, it makes me wonder how the normal people survive at all.

Unfortunately, as I run a lot of modules atm, and they are basically BIG dungeon crawls, fast leveling is necessary without major modifications, but hopefully I'll have the time to craft my own scenarios again soon.

 

[DreamChaser]

While I like the idea of leveling on the fly rather than at the end of a session, I find it impossilbe because 2 out of my 4 gamers will always need help leveling up. It ends up stopping the game all together and when we only game for 3-4 hours once a week, that turns into a problem.

Of course in my next game, I'm going to have players develop an outline of feats/skills/spells for their characters throughout the levels. That should speed things up. They won't be bound by them but they should decide in advance (rather at the moment of leveling) that they want to change their progression.

DC