Experience points

In a word - cliquishness.

You've seen factionalism on these boards and elsewhere, right? We didn't want the XP system used to support such. We didn't want smaller circles of people getting into self-supporting XP cliques. As it is set now, in order to gain significant levels of XP, the appeal of your writing has to be pretty broad.

So what is the intent of the XP system as those of you running the boards see it?

If I get XP, I know that [Sally Field] you love me, you really love me [/Sally Field]. If I don't get XP, then it is clearly a message that I am not worthy and should strive to do better.

Actually I don't really care all that much about XP. While it is nice to get some along with a message about why, I find that I care more about people responding to what I say in a thread, feeling like I am a part of a conversation, than getting kudos from somebody.

Last note - anybody see the irony in Nifft not liking the XP system and yet having one of the higher totals that I have noticed on the boards?
 

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Umbran said:
In a word - cliquishness.

You've seen factionalism on these boards and elsewhere, right? We didn't want the XP system used to support such. We didn't want smaller circles of people getting into self-supporting XP cliques. As it is set now, in order to gain significant levels of XP, the appeal of your writing has to be pretty broad.
In a shorter word - so?

In [too] many, many words -

What benefit does someone get if a bunch of sycophants boost his xp up to 5,000 points? What if I sat here all day just giving you continuous xp. What good does it do you to be a level 21 Terrasque, or whatever? Does this hurt or hinder someone else? Is there a limited number of xp? Does seeing someone's xp level under their name in some way give their posts more weight?

What benefit does someone get for a huge post count total? Does having 40,000 post count give the poster some value over a poster who only has 40?

If we're not afraid that someone is going to spam the boards just to get their post count high, why are we afraid that someone is going to work with others to get their xp high? And even if they do, so what?

Heck, take away the level under our names, and will anyone know (other than the poster and the xp awarder) anything about anyone's xp?

I'm just not seeing a problem, potential or realized.

As it is set now, in order to gain significant levels of XP, the appeal of your writing has to be pretty broad.
I don't see it this way. As it is set now, in order to gain significant levels of XP, the persons awarding XP have to be pretty free and easy with awarding to lots of people.

You could post one really great post, with broad appeal, each week, and because of the 50-cycle and the daily limit, you wouldn't get XP for the post but every couple--few weeks.

I'm going to give you XP for the post I'm responding to, to make a point. 1- to show it doesn't help you or hurt anyone else. 2- it doesn't mean anything valuable to you or to me if the XP is just thrown at you. 3- it gets me closer to being able to give XP to someone else again.

Edit: LOL! I can't give XP to you until I spread some around.

Bullgrit
 

I’m finding the 50-person cycle damned annoying. I keep hitting the “You must spread some experience around” thing so much it’s aggravating.
Huh, I've never actually run into that.

Maybe try reading more forums? Story Hour writers deserve plenty of non-material rewards.

there’s no problem with someone posting a bunch of crap to build up their post count?
People have been permanently banned for pretty much exactly that.

Cheers, -- N
 

In a shorter word - so?

That works both ways. You can't give a second point for some longish while. So?

You've already told someone you've liked what they wrote. Doing it again, ("I really like your posts" or "I really really liked your posts") isn't adding a whole lot of new information to the system.

If we're not afraid that someone is going to spam the boards just to get their post count high, why are we afraid that someone is going to work with others to get their xp high? And even if they do, so what?

I can think of cases where spamming the boards did become a problem. One earned the person a permaban. While infrequent, it has been a concern.


I'm just not seeing a problem, potential or realized.

When we were instituting the system, Morrus asked among the mods for input. A few of us had noted cases in other forums where, through abuse, the system had become meaningless, and had promoted behaviors that are not really in line with EN World's raison d'etre.

And anyway, that argument goes both ways. We went for years without any such feature, and there was no "problem". Nobody was harmed in any way by not being able to give XP. No "problem" arises from having it be handed out slowly, either.

I don't see it this way. As it is set now, in order to gain significant levels of XP, the persons awarding XP have to be pretty free and easy with awarding to lots of people.

Depends on what you call "significant" I suppose. Or, more accurately - what counts as "significant" depends on the limits in the system. If we raised the frequency with which you could give XP, the whole system would just rescale. Why bother?

Consider it this way - EN World is set up with slow XP awards, as a way to keep things in the Heroic tier. Being 10th level is very meaningful in this campaign world. It's the GM's style choice. :)
 


Umbran said:
That works both ways. You can't give a second point for some longish while. So?

You've already told someone you've liked what they wrote. Doing it again, ("I really like your posts" or "I really really liked your posts") isn't adding a whole lot of new information to the system.
But the xp function is attached to a post, not the poster. Giving xp isn't saying, "I like your posts" [plural, general], it's saying, "I like this post" [singular, specific]. I figure the Friend function is for the poster.

As for "You can't give a second point for some longish while. So?" -- The so is: I can't give a second point for what is for my xp-awarding-rate a very long while. I can't say, "Good Post" to someone twice in a month. (Unless, of course, I make a post saying that, which is borderline spamming.)

Side effect: Plus, I've sometimes found an old thread/post that I find good, and I find I can't say "Thanks for the info" without thread necromancy.

I can think of cases where spamming the boards did become a problem. One earned the person a permaban. While infrequent, it has been a concern.
So spamming is a problem, yet we still have the post counter. (For the record: I have no problem with the post counter.)

When we were instituting the system, Morrus asked among the mods for input. A few of us had noted cases in other forums where, through abuse, the system had become meaningless, and had promoted behaviors that are not really in line with EN World's raison d'etre.
What resulted from the abuse? That's what I'm asking in all of this: What benefit can an abuser get, and what harm can an abuse do with this xp system? What bad behavior would be promoted?

And anyway, that argument goes both ways. We went for years without any such feature, and there was no "problem". Nobody was harmed in any way by not being able to give XP. No "problem" arises from having it be handed out slowly, either.
Well heck, that argument can be made for anything. We went for years without ENWorld, and there was no "problem." Nobody was harmed in any way by not being able to read news on a 3rd-party Web site.

Then we got ENWorld. We liked it. But what if we could only access the site once a week. Or only after visiting 50 other Web sites. When someone says, "We like this site, and want to visit a couple or so times a week."

Depends on what you call "significant" I suppose. Or, more accurately - what counts as "significant" depends on the limits in the system. If we raised the frequency with which you could give XP, the whole system would just rescale. Why bother?

Consider it this way - EN World is set up with slow XP awards, as a way to keep things in the Heroic tier. Being 10th level is very meaningful in this campaign world. It's the GM's style choice.
You could increase the XP needed to level, and then let people give XP more often.

It's like with D&D. The PCs need 2,000 XP to level up. The DM likes awarding XP, the Players like getting XP. But the designers say, "We don't want the PCs leveling up too fast, so you can only award and get XP for every 10th encounter." The Designers could simply have raised the level up number to 20,000 XP, and let the DMs and Players continue with their fun rate of awards.

Overall, I'm just saying, the XP system ENWorld has is a great thing. But its use is so restricted that it's near useless.

So, I ask, what bad happens if the restriction is lightened or removed?

I won't make any more comments on this subject. It's not that important to me. I just think it's a waste of a really good idea.

Bullgrit
 

Well, if we can't persuade you shorten the cycle, perhaps we could get you to add a smiley for "my head is going to swell" for compliments given in thread?

Don't ask me what it should be, though. I'm just a simple country lawyer, and lack the sophistication of y'all city folk.;)
 


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